Who said what?

ACORN · Who said what?

I do not understand why McCain and Palin feel they can get away with such huge, blatant lies. It's as though they think we are too stupid to figure out the truth. With all the people checking facts, this is next to impossible not to know the truth.
For instance;
McCain said that he was 'worried about Senator Obamas connections with ACORN. This needs to be explained'.

What he didn't say was that in 2006 he - McCain - was the keynote speaker at an ACORN rally.
"The people in this very room are what makes America special." (McCain's words at the rally)
For the record, 13 years ago when Obama was practicing law, he, along with the US Justice system, represented ACORN in an investigation into voter registration issues. The Indiana dept of Motor vehicles was not allowing people to register at the offices when they should have been allowed.
This is the kind of double talk that I am hearing right and left.
Another is Sarah Palin, when asked to her face about the supreme court ruling that stated she abused her power in the firing of Monaghan, repeatedly said how happy she was that she was cleared of any illegal or ethical wrongdoing.
HELLO!!!!! What part of abuse of power is ethical?
And she is constantly referring to Obamas connections with Ayers - a terrorist trying to bring down the government.
Again - HELLO! She married a man who was part of an organization that wanted to bring down the government.
None of this is news to anyone, I'm sure. I just wanted to vent my frustrations at these pathetic attempts to fool the voters.

Patriot

Actually the Alaskan Supreme Court did not give a ruling in the Troopergate fiasco other than saying an investigation could be conducted. The Alaskan Legislature found no criminal wrong doing on Palins part but stated that Todd Palin had used the Govenors office to attempt to get State Trooper Mike Wooten fired and Palin did nothing to stop Todd Palin. An accusation Todd Plain refuted. Much to do about nothing, certainly no voter fraud here.

Guest · Patriot! You are making my head hurt...

voter fraud? who is talking about voter fraud? you have apparently thrown all your political terminology in a Cuisinart and hit frappe'!
Palin was found to have "abused the power of her office" which is, in fact, illegal in Alaska.

Guest

Ya see? That's what I'm talking about.
Patriot, don't you watch the news, read the newspaper, or even the Internet?
I guess that you, like Palin, think that 'abuse of office' is not unethical.
I am afraid that Republicans -one and all- have been injected with a puppet hormone. Or maybe parrot genes. They all say the same thing without having a frickin clue what they are talking about.

Scorekeeper

She's a bresh of freth air.

Patriot · SNL

Was she found guilty of committing a crime? No. Does she face criminal prosecution? No. Does she even face censure by the Alaskan legislature? No. Is she going to appear on SNL? Yes. Does that qualify her to be VP? No but, it shows moxie. I wonder if Palin is going to do an impersonation of Feye impersonating Palin? "I've never been to Alaska but I have a poster of a baby polar bear in my bedroom". Or how about "If McCain loses I will have to find a real job. Oh that's right, if McCain loses there won't be any jobs".

Scorekeeper

A poster in the bedroom?

Is it next to your Madonna poster? Is it the corner by your Teen Beat magazines? Maybe you bought it to replace your Erik Estrada in the CHP uniform poster.

A poster in the bedroom?

Recession Fairy · Your first wish has already been granted

Wall street asked for a big time recession and now we all get one. It doesn't matter what your political stripe is. It's already here, baby. There will be fewer jobs. John McCain can not save you. He couldn't even bring his own party together when he suspended his campaign to help with the bail out. He certainly can't change the tide of a world wide recession.
Reality is hard, so hard...

Patriot

Obama cannot save you either, by following Herbert Hoover's taxing policies creating a full blown depression. We are doomed and all Obama can think about is how much lobster, caviar and Crystal Champaign he will need for the big victory blowout and of course there is the investigation the DNC is conducting on Joe the Plumber.
Speaking of Joe the Plumber, did you know the guy has a tax lean against him. Yep, that's the way it begins, that long slide into despair that Obama is going to save us all (95% of us) from. Poor Joe still has a misguided dream of owning his own business though. Now if Joe is being investigated by the Obama team today just think about the investigating you will go through when it comes your turn for that big tax break or insurance program Obama is promising you. Yeah, you gotta love Barack, he's on the side of the little people. I wonder if one of those bottles of Crystal has your name on it?

Recession Fairy · Did I say that?

No. I didn't. I said McCain can't save you from a recession and I didn't say that Obama could save anyone from the recession. I said Wall Street is calling a recession down on your heads and there will be jobs lost. That's what I said. That was it.
Go parrot Fox news to someone else. I don't care.

Guest

Calm yourself people. If you believe Bush created this then Obama will save the day.

In our capatilistic society the market has always rebounded. In our soon to be socialist ecomony with an Obama super majority party in control / welfare state - who knows.

Guest · are his thoughts correct?

Nostradamus

Patriot

You mean the Anti-Christ?

Nah, I'm not even buying that one. Socialist, yes. Godly, no. Although there are some Obama followers................ . The ones that get a chill up their legs. Now that is wierd.

Recession Fairy · Calm? Don't I seem calm???

Actually, that's what my financial planner said, the market will rebound, so I funded my 401-k and in a matter of weeks it was gone- poof!
Hurray for Capitalism...

Actually, the economist Richard Reich is correct, it is socialism for the rich and corporate America and capitalism for us poor folk on the bottom of the economic ladder.

Fool me once...

Guest

Guest

...as you bread your totalitarian society be sure to salt and pepper to taste and turn gently in pure 350 degree canola oil.

Dang typos...

Patriot

Yeah, that's what Joe the Plumber is feeling right now. We all wan't to beat the carp (that's a fish) out of the Robber Barons but they make a lot more than $250,000 a year. $250,000 a year is barely upper middle class. $250,000,000 a year! Now there is somebody you want to go after. Somebody like ummm, Madona, George Clooney or Katie Couric. Bill Gates is OK though, he donates alot to charitable causes and Oprah is pretty cool too (she like to spread the wealth around not redistribute it). The Donald is a realy bad guy and should be arrested.
I think I'm going to watch MSNBC now, I need a good laugh.

Guest · Lot's of models that work

Social Democracies in the model of Denmark, Sweden or even New Zealand treat their citizens with far more care and respect than America ever has. We practise a rather cruel, each man for himself and to hell with the other guy, barbaric, capitalism by world standards. Danes, Swedes and Kiwis work and work hard and they have a better quality of life.
Karl Marx was a theorist. These countries are real. If they can do it and maintain their freedoms why can't we? I am always so embarrassed that Americans think they have the best system. We were lucky enough to have a huge land mass with lots of resources but that is the only way in which we are the greatest country on earth. We have a lot to learn but our national arrogance prevents us from opening our eyes. It's unfortunate because we could be amazing. Sadly, we so worship the Almighty Buck that we can't see passed it and that is sad.
My opinion.

Was that a recipe for French toast up there? Sounds yummy!

Walmart Woman

You know, I'm sure Denmark, Sweden and even New Zealand (with their cold showers and yucky food) would love to have you. Of course you might not always be able to get maple syrup for that yummy French toast. I like America just the way she is. We don't all look or think alike. We're diverse and kind to places like Sweden, Denmark and New Zealand where they wan't to be just like us.

Facts

Socialism does not work ! Look at Germany as an example, thier leaders have said they cannot continue to operate a socialist society.

Socialism does not promote productivity and in fact reduces it leading to more massive debt. Welfare societies are great if you never wan't to make anything more of yourself than the next person. I work hard so my kid can be better and have a better life than I had, that's what life is all about.

my opinion

So the economy is your fault for wanting more and GIVEING your children every thing they whine for. How many kids do you see today that do not have something in their pockets that cost more money then you ever had at their age . Yet, you wonder WHY our country is in the state its in. I say its because of all the parents in the past placating the kids and giving them want ever it is to keep them quiet.
They teach NO respect for them selves , property or their neighbors. They think nothing of taking what they want because you have always given in to them .
Walmart is also one of the BIGGEST culprits in the down fall of our society.
They use to say " ONLY IN AMERICA" which made me shop there. Not now. Now their slogan should read " China and Mexico Rocks!"
They are killing our society.
I see them cater to people who THUMB their noses at our laws, rules and society in general .
WE let them.
WE have to stand up against companies who cater to people who refuse to learn how to communicate.
If I go to China or Mexico. I better know how to at least communicate a little . because I am very sure they do not have signage in English .
I just wish that English as the official language was on the ballot.
If you must print something in another language then you MUST do it in EVERY language out there in the world. Its only fair to everyone.
My neighbor is from Easter Europe , and the FIRST thing he learned was how to communicate so that he could " live the American Dream" So he could get a job where he pays taxes( not under the table cash no taxes paid) so he could own his own house .( which he could not do in his native country) He is just a disturbed by the actions of people who come here and take our jobs , money, benefits and give NOTHING back to the country.
To all you smart politicals out there you tell me .
WHO is going to FIX this mess?
Because thats the canadate who will get my vote.

Patriot · RANT

To my opinion
Right on point! Unfortunately if you are looking to either of these candidates to address the REAL problems in America, at least at the campaign level, you are fooling yourself. Has either candidate addressed illegal immigration during the campaign? No. Both of their records are abysmal regarding the issue. Do you trust either of these candidates or their running mates with the task of reinvesting our youth with the American Work Ethic? I don't. Does either candidate instill a sense of moral principals? For me McCain offers marginally more than Obama.
An American child is kidnapped by the Mexican Drug Cartel, for years American children have been kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery both at home and abroad. Where is the candidates outrage? American local law enforcement personnel are being murdered by foreign Mafia’s dealing in human trafficking and drugs. Have you heard either McCain or Obama mention it? The corrupt Mexican Military has crossed the border many times to provide cover for these illegal activities and Bush has turned a blind eye. Why hasn't Obama or McCain promised to put an end to this attack on our sovereignty? Why are they not demanding that our neighbor to the South be a good neighbor? Could it be Obama likes the votes and McCain likes the cheap labor?
Sweat shops are not only a foreign phenomena, they are right here in America, right now, and have been for some time. Children working 14 hour days. Where is the outrage? Walmart and Tyson Foods blatantly flaunting American labor laws and Unions more interested in membership roles than protecting worker rights. Where is the outrage?
America is a ripe plumb ready for the picking, be it socialist or fascist. More than anything else, the adoration and blind following of Obama's promises scare me but, make no mistake, I am not comforted by John McCain's inaction to address the real problems facing America. We are well beyond choosing from the lessor of two evils. That decision was made eight years ago and I fear the Great American Experiment is about to die no matter who wins the next election. George HW Bush's dream of a one world government is about to become reality and some of you probably applaud that. For myself I have never been very fond of the Thought Police and that is exactly what a one world government gets you. Everyone wears gray, thinks gray and lives gray.
No matter who you vote for, do not set your expectations to high. It is one thing to promise and quite another to provide.
Again, thank you my opinion, for boldly stating the truth.

Guest · ?

there is a difference between socialism and social democracies but I wonder why I bother to bring it up...

Patriot

Guest of 8:47 pm
I know you tire of by my obvious stupidity but, is there a difference between capitalizim and capatalistic democracy? I'm no political scientist to be sure but, I can read:
Social democracy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Social democracy
Precursors[hide]Age of Enlightenment
Utopian socialism
Trade unionism
Revolutions of 1848
Orthodox Marxism
Development[hide]Revisionism / Reformism
Third way
Policies[hide]Representative democracy
Labor rights · Civil liberties
Welfare state · Mixed economy
Secularism · Fair trade
Environmental protection
Organizations[hide]Social democratic parties
Socialist International
Party of European Socialists

International Trade Union Confederation
People[hide]Eduard Bernstein
Hjalmar Branting
Friedrich Ebert · Jean Jaurès
Léon Blum · Karl Kautsky
Ramsay MacDonald
Clement Attlee · Tommy Douglas
José Batlle y Ordoñez
v • d • e
Social democracy is a political ideology of the left or centre-left that emerged in the late 19th century from the socialist movement and continues to be influential in many countries worldwide.[1]

The nature of social democracy has changed throughout the decades since its inception. Historically, social democratic parties advocated socialism in the strict sense, achieved by class struggle. In the early 20th century, however, a number of socialist and labor parties rejected revolution and other traditional forms of Marxism and went on to take more moderate positions, which came to form modern social democracy. These positions often include support for a democratic welfare state which incorporates elements of both socialism and capitalism, sometimes termed the mixed economy or the social market economy.[2] This differs from traditional socialism, which aims to end the predominance of capitalism and replace it with a worker-controlled economic system. Social democrats aim to reform capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation of programs that work to counteract or remove the social injustice and inefficiencies they see as inherent in capitalism.

In many countries, social democrats continue to exist alongside democratic socialists, who stand to the political left of them on the political spectrum. The two movements sometimes operate within the same political party, such as the Brazilian Workers' Party[3] and the French Socialist Party. More unusually, social democrats occasionally share parties with politicians of the centre-right, as in Forza Italia in Italy and Fine Gael in Ireland.

The Socialist International (SI) is the main international organization of social democratic and socialist parties. It affirms the following principles: first, freedom—not only individual liberties, but also freedom from discrimination and freedom from dependence on either the owners of the means of production or the holders of abusive political power; second, equality and social justice—not only before the law but also economic and socio-cultural equality as well, and equal opportunities for all including those with physical, mental, or social disabilities; and, third, solidarity—unity and a sense of compassion for the victims of injustice and inequality. These ideals are described in further detail in the SI's Declaration of Principles.[4]

In recent years, several social democratic parties (in particular, the British Labour Party) have embraced more centrist, Third Way policy positions. This development has generated a significant degree of controversy.

Sounds like Obama to me and I want no part of it. Come to think of it, isn't that also kinda like the same stuff Bill Ayers and the Reverend Wright expond. Almost makes you want to move to Alaska. You betcha. But then that's just stupid old me.

Guest · big topic, lots of nuance...

Actually Patriot, it's good to see you reading and expanding your political knowledge.
Personally. I would place Obama as a more centrist Democrat than he is being portrayed by the media presently and won't be surprised when, as President, he takes a more centrist position. In a country as politically divided as the US that is the most pragmatic approach for garnering cooperation from both sides so that progress can be made that benefits everyone.
As for my personal political views, it doesn't really matter. I have one vote and you have one vote. I know what country I am living in and have no delusion that it will ever swing very far left in my lifetime. I prefer to do what I can for folks in need or forgotten children or resisting violence - small battles I can affect in some way.
That's why I like Obama because he supports community service. Like the Kennedy's, he sees what we can accomplish if we return to an ethic of service in this country both domestically and internationally.
Too much emphasis on pure market Capitalism seems to breed a selfish society, in my opinion.
To quote your Wikipedia article "The nature of social democracy has changed throughout the decades since its inception." Every political model is ever changing on the political continuum at any given point in time.
It's when you use words meant to describe complex political systems as insults or "bad words" such as "socialism is bad" isn't helpful to the dialogue. We are all striving for better ways to work together. Following the example of McCarthyism - calling people "commie pinko's" is hateful and counter productive.

Let's work together to find commonality and respect each others point of view because we don't know what set of life experiences caused us to develop those views.
Forgive my rambling. You asked about Capitalism and Capitalist Democracy. I would refer you back to Wikopedia, here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_capitalism
Then we can talk about it.

Oboma Said ?

Very, very interesting.

I know everyone has a different opinion on the war and our current
President. But, this article makes a lot of sense, take 2 minutes, read it
and give it some thought.

When electing the next President, 'the only decision
you have to make is who you want sitting in that seat in
the White House when - not if - WHEN we get hit again and
millions of American lives are put at risk!'

This is from: 'You ain't gonna like losing.'

Author unknown.

President Bush did make a bad mistake in the war on
terrorism. But the mistake was not his decision to go to
war in Iraq . Bush's mistake came in his belief that
this country is the same one his father fought for in WWII.

It is not !

Back then, they had just come out of a vicious depression.
The country was steeled by the hardship of that depression,
but they still believed fervently in this country. The y knew
that the people had elected their leaders, so it was the
people's duty to back those leaders.

Therefore, when the war broke out the people came together,
rallied behind, and stuck with their leaders, whether they
had voted for them or not or whether the war was going badly or not.

And war was just as distasteful and the anguish just as
great then as it is today. Often there were more casualties
in one day in WWII than we have had in the entire Iraq war.
But that did not matter. The people stuck with the President

because it was their patriotic duty. Americans put aside their

differences in WWII and worked together to win that war.

Everyone from every strata of society, from young to old
pitched in. Small children pulled little wagons around to
gather scrap metal for the war effort. Grade school students

saved their pennies to buy stamps for war bonds to help the effort.

Men who were too old or medically 4F lied about their age
or condition trying their best to join the military.

Women doubled their work to keep things going at home.
Harsh rationing of everything from gasoline to soap, to
butter was imposed, yet there was very little complaining.

You never heard prominent people on the radio belittling
the President. Interestingly enough in those days there
were no fat cat actors and entertainers who ran off to
visit and fawn over dictators of hostile countries and
complain to them about our President. Instead, they made
upbeat films and entertained our troops to help the
troops' morale. And a bunch even enlisted.

And imagine this: Teachers in schools actually started the
day off with a Pledge of Allegiance, and with prayers for
our country and our troops!

Back then, no newspaper would have dared point out certain
weak spots in our cities where bombs could be set off to
cause the maximum damage. No newspaper would have dared
complain about what we were doing to catch spies. A
newspaper would have been laughed out of existence if it
had complained that German or Japanese soldiers were being
'tortured' by being forced to wear women's underwear,
or subjected to interrogation by a woman, or being scared by a dog or did not have air conditioning.

There were a lot of things different back then. We were not
subjected to a constant bombardment of pornography,
perversion and promiscuity in movies or on radio. We did
not have legions of crack heads, dope pushers and armed
gangs roaming our streets.

No, President Bush did not make a mistake in his handling
of terrorism. He made the mistake of believing that we
still had the courage and fortitude of our fathers. He
believed that this was still the country that our fathers
fought so dearly to preserve.

It is not the same country. It is now a cross between
Sodom and Gomorrah and the land of Oz. We did unite for a
short while after 9/11, but our attitude changed when we
found out that defending our country would require some
sacrifices.

We are in great danger. The terrorists are fanatic
Muslims. They believe that it is okay, even their duty, to
kill anyone who will not convert to Islam. It has been
estimated that about one third or over three hundred
million Muslims are sympathetic to the terrorists cause...
Hitler and Tojo combined did not have nearly that many
potential recruits. So... We either win it - or lose it -
and you ain't gonna like losing.

America is not at war. The military is at war.

America is at the mall, or watching the movie stars.

Guest

Well done Oboma said?. I am glad I am not alone. Were are you Walmart Woman? Don't tell me you have thrown in the towell.

another Obama supporter

To the posters claiming our country will be taken over by Muslim terrorists, you are far more destructive with your lies and inuendos than I would ever imagine any citizen in our little hometown of Edgewater capable of. Read the real quotes at the snopes site below.
People like you scare the crap out of me. Even McCain himself has said there is NO reason to be afraid of having Obama as our President. They have conflicting ideas, yes.
Do you feel the only way to win the election for McCain is to use terrorist scare tactics yourself? Look in the mirror, I hope you don't like who you see.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp

Who said what?

Patriot! You are making my head hurt...

SNL

Your first wish has already been granted

Did I say that?

are his thoughts correct?

Calm? Don't I seem calm???

Lot's of models that work

RANT

?

big topic, lots of nuance...