Archive for edgewatertalkingstick.myfreeforum.org The talking stick has been used in many cultures to promote discussion and community. It is our hope that citizens will join in and gain a greater sense of community involvement. Note: This is not a government sanctioned forum.
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The Harlander
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Under the old Charter the P&R Board advised the Mayor, not the P&R Director. It seems we are into a transitional period and the functions of the Board will have to be redefined by City Council before they can become effective. Any advise they have to offer can only be through the Mayors office until the Manager takes over and even then it is unclear whom they will be advising sans direction from the Council. The P&R board used to be Charter mandated, that is no longer the case. They are a lost board with no one to advise until the City Council redefines their purpose.
Like I have said before, Council has a lot to do before now and the drop dead dates in the transitional provisions in the Charter. We voted to ratify this Charter on June 24th, it took effect on June 25th and Council will not even address the new Charter till July 31st. It would seem to me that somebody had better begin to take this stuff seriously or we could once again be dealing with a "Broken Charter". There is nothing more important before this City Council than the implementation of this Charter and meeting the deadlines spelled out in the Transitional Provisions of the new Charter. They have to deal with existing Boards and Commissions, some of wich will pass into history and others to be redefined as to accountability. The new Charter Review and Compliance Commission must be given rules of procedure and populated. They have to plan and budget for a City Manager by November. They are up against the wall with a changed form of government and their current presiding officer admittedly stated that he does not believe this event is historic nor even a priority.
It is historic, and they had best begin treating it as such. Business as usual has changed and the air in the Ivory Tower of City Hall is no longer so rare.
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City watcher
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Watch the ERA meeting today 12!!!Sorry Harlander but I would disagree. Our Council is still working on other important things like completing the Ice Ranch negotiations. You can't have much of a city unless you have some money coming in.
Transitional provisions are just that; transitioning over time. They have some time and things like the Parks and Rec. Board can wait.
They aren't doing much in the meantime.
What I am noticing is a series of posted meetings between the Mayor and some ERA people moving from Angies, to another place today at 12 noon and then another meeting next week. I hear ERA intends to spend all $400,000. they have in their coffers on 25th Avenue (we all know who lives along 25th) instead of giving it back to the City! Run down and notice the fine print on the meeting noticed for handing out some sort of award today. It says they may also be transacting business, on a Saturday. What's up with that?
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Guest
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City watcher
| Quote: | | They aren't doing much in the meantime |
Starting work on a Master Parks and Recreation plan is not doing much? Writting the resolution for the Tree Master Plan is not doing much? Gee what are they going to do if they ever get busy?
Don't you think Council can do some multi tasking as well?
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Guest
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Multi-taskingThe P&R Board needs to learn about multi-tasking too. Do the studies, that's fine but in the meantime do some programming for the children in this community. They shouldn't have to wait for you.
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Guest
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The P&R Board does not have the power to implement programing only the Director of P&R has that power. So what part of "advisory" do we not understand?
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Guest
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Apparently it would the part about understanding how the process works from start to finish. The steps it takes to get ideas prepared and presented to the people that can actually do something. Harlander said the board advises the mayor and yet Guest 4:53pm says the board is hounding the Director. You think if I advised my doctor about the funny noise my car is making it would get fixed? I don’t think the Parks and Rec Chair knows how to get the job done.
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Guest
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From the Charter - remember the new Charter?10.6 Department of Parks and Recreation. (1) The Department of Parks and Recreation is hereby established, consisting of the Parks and Recreation Director as the department head and any personnel subordinate to the Parks and Recreation Director. The Parks and Recreation Director shall be hired by and may be terminated from employment by the City Manager.
(2) The Parks and Recreation Director shall be responsible to the City Manager for the proper administration of the Department of Parks and Recreation and for the performance of such other functions and duties that may be required by law but are not inconsistent with this Charter, the ordinances and resolutions of the Council, and the directions of the City Manager.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: Article XI
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Synopsis: Article XI, Boards and Commissions, provides for the City’s boards and commissions. All existing boards and commissions are continued in effect. In addition, a new commission, the Charter Review and Compliance Commission, is established. The purpose of this Commission is the hear complaints alleging non-compliance with the Charter. This Commission is also charged with reviewing the Charter at least once every six years. Community Committees are recognized as a way for volunteers to organize and participate in City activities.
ARTICLE XI. BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS
11.1 General; Boards and Commissions. (1) All boards and commissions existing as of the date of the adoption of this Charter, including any urban renewal authority formed pursuant to Title 31, Article 25, of the Colorado Revised Statutes, shall continue as established by ordinance, except as otherwise provided in this Charter.
| Quote: | | (2) The City Council may establish, by ordinance, such other advisory boards and commissions as it determines necessary or desirable, including any urban renewal authority formed pursuant to Title 31, Article 25, of the Colorado Revised Statutes. The ordinance establishing any board or commission shall prescribe its powers and duties; shall specify the board or commission’s duty to report to the City Council or to the City Manager, as appropriate; and shall identify the department head who will act as the board or commission’s liaison pursuant to Section 9.2(12). All such boards and commissions shall have powers and duties that are advisory only, except as otherwise provided by law, and the City Council shall reserve in any such ordinance the power and duty to make the final decision with respect to all such matters. |
(3) Except as otherwise required by this Charter, all board and commission members shall be appointed by the Mayor.
(4) Unless specifically provided for otherwise by ordinance, all boards and commissions shall be comprised solely of residents of the City who are not elected officials, officers, or employees of the City. Volunteer firefighters are not considered employees of the City and may, if otherwise qualified, serve on City boards and commissions.
(5) Except as otherwise provided by this Charter, the Mayor may remove for negligence of duty, malfeasance, or inefficiency any appointee with the approval of Council. No such removal shall take place without a charge in writing by the Mayor and the opportunity for a hearing before the Council.
(6) Each board and commission established by, or pursuant to, this Charter shall:
(a) choose its own Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson and may choose such other officers as it deems appropriate;
(b) adopt and operate in accordance with its own rules of procedure. Such rules shall not conflict with this Charter or the ordinances of the City, and shall not take effect until reviewed and approved by the City Council.
(7) The City Council may, by ordinance, consolidate or abolish any board or commission established pursuant to this Section 11.1 of the Charter, but shall not consolidate or abolish those boards or commissions expressly set forth in Sections 11.2 through 11.6 below.
(8 ) The Mayor shall not make any appointment to any board or commission without posting and publishing notice of vacancy thereon for at least fourteen (14) days prior to the appointment. The Mayor shall consider the recommendations of the board or commission to which the appointment applies.
(9) No person who has been or who is convicted of embezzlement, bribery, solicitation of bribery, perjury, subornation or perjury, or any offense involving fraud, shall be capable of holding a position on any board or commission.
(10) Each board and commission shall meet at least once each year with the City Council to discuss matters of mutual interest.
(11) Except as otherwise specifically provided in this Charter, the City Council shall establish by ordinance, functions of and other matters concerning each board and commission.
(12) All board or commission meetings for the transaction of business shall be open to the public, except that the board or commission may go into executive session for the purpose of considering matters permitted by the state statute and according to the procedures set forth therefor in Title 24, Article 6, Part 4, of the Colorado Revised Statutes as may be amended from time to time.
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Guest
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So... 
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Guest
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Yep, read the manual. Now all we need is the ordinance that formed the P&R Board. Bet they advise the Mayor or the Mayors Representative which would be the P&R Director. That will at the least have to be changed to City Manager. Regardless of all of that, the Board doesn't have much power except as the Tree Commission.
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Guest
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I thought they were formed by the charter. maybe there isn't an ordinance. at least not one written in the last twenty years.
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Guest
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So... | Quote: | | The ordinance establishing any board or commission shall prescribe its powers and duties; shall specify the board or commission’s duty to report to the City Council or to the City Manager, as appropriate; and shall identify the department head who will act as the board or commission’s liaison pursuant to Section 9.2(12). |
1. prescribe it's powers and duties
2. shall specify the board or commission's duty to report to the City Council or the City Manager
3. shall identify the dept. head who will act as the board or commission's liaison pursuant to Section 9.2(12)
| Quote: | Transitional Provisions
20.6 Continuation of Board and Commission Members. (1) All City board and commission members shall, in all respects, continue to serve out their full appointed terms but shall be subject to the provisions of this Charter as though they had been appointed in the manner provided in this Charter. |
So... The Parks and Recreation Board has no ordinance that does those things. They have yet to learn from Council what their powers and duties are or who they report to. We can assume the P&R Director will be their staff liaison but we don't know if the liaison reports to Council or will continue to report to the Mayor and eventually to a City Manager.
There are other Boards and Commissions affected by the Charter too. In fact, every Board or Commission except P&Z and Adjustment and Appeals is similarly in limbo, including the Tree Commission.
There are citizen committees but no "Mayor's committees". The recycling committee, for example, is considered a Mayor's committee.
An argument could be made that perhaps these boards and commissions should stop meeting until they are properly reviewed and reformed by Council. Their by-laws should also be reviewed by Council to be sure they comply with the new Charter or perhaps the Boards and Commissions first job after Council creates them (if they do!) again is to re-write their by-laws to conform to the new Charter.
That's the so
Please note, this is the way I am reading the Charter right now, I'm not trying to be a troublemaker! It will be interesting to hear the City Attorney and Council's interpretation. 
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Guest
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Re: So... | Quote: | | That's the so |
Well, why didn't you just say so in the first place? Now your starting to make some good sense. Maybe they shouldn't meet until they are transitioned in.
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The Harlander
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Actually the Tree Commission is just fine in the new Charter. The oridnance that formed them made them advisors to Counci and working with the City Arborist. The Arborist position is unclear in the ordinance, however. Right now he works under the P&R Director more by executive (read Mayorial) policy. I would imagine it will be up to the new City Manager to determine whether he want's to keep the Arborist under the P&R Director or directly answerable to the Manager. No need to bother Council with that issue.
Just my humble opinion but, I could be wrong.
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The Harlander
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PS Excellent post Guest of 3:54 PM.
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Guest
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I was a little reserved by the Charter and Review Compliance Commission but you know, the more I learn, the more I realize that this is a well written and thought out document. The transition is going to go a lot smoother than some of you think (Harlander). We have the Council that can get it done.
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Farmer Scott
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Possible move of discussion?Harlander and others, I'm just wondering if some of the replies in this post might be better served elseware. Don't get me wrong I am enjoying the education and the thoughts. But, when the discussion of leaked p and r email gets crossed over too as far as the CRCC; isn't it time for a new post?
The implementation of the new Charter is of utmost importance. That being said, might there be a way to use the "stick" as a teaching tool much like NAOMI did?
Farmer's Market:
Special of the day...I have lived in this town for close enough to 20 years. I absolutely have NO axe to grind with anyone.
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The Harlander
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I love you Farmer Scott! If nothing else you don't like junk  . You da man my friend and you always serve as the anchor of common sense. So let's start a new thread. What should we call it? Oh I know, look for it here in Government.
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Farmer Scott
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Hello people.Man, 5:20 comes early. Wait, that's PM. Harlander, I have been waiting all day for someone to respond. The Farmer like to gander at da-stick he doesn't feel the need to be part of the banter. I know with your great talents maybe we can get the conversation moving. At this point I think I'll pull a Mr. Mendez and throw this out there. I'm hoping ALL of the readers will throw thoughts, ideas and questions out for all to read and hopefully the part of ALL will be heard. These conversations may be humorous but, the main attention should be; to be serious.
Here is my first thought/idea: Should an appointee to the CRCC be a registered elector? Maybe this is a sacrifice one could make. The heart of the question is trully should someone with the ability to sit in judgement of those he/she may or may not have elected? Does this person have a dog in the race or maybe the annoying neighbor dog. Or, could this just be a idea of a gentlemans word? Or, am I just crazy? Your thoughts everyone?
This is where I started, please don't feel any constraints to any question dealing with any portion of the Charter implementation.
Farmers note: Even a bad farmer knows the difference of $.25 a bushel; I do not. I do know eight gallons is the same as four pecks provided its dry.
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Farmer Scott
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Big sorry.Please disregard my last post. I'm surprised someone wasn't all over the Farmer. I will admit I haven't looked at this portion of the Charter for some time. MY VERY BAD. I am still hoping for questions, thoughts and ideas. Harlander???
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Guest
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Well Farmer, you bring up a good point. Maybe because we do vote for, or not vote for the people that may come before the board to be judged, there could be a built in conflict. I'd hate to see it become a "I told you so, now let me prove it." kind of thing.
Does the charter allow for the members of the review committee to be from someplace besides Edgewater? Any ideas on how to seat the board with disinterested third party people?
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charter issues
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Our council is fully aware of the changes and legal ramifications of these changes in the charter. They will be working with the city attorney who will educate and counsel them through the changes. As was said a few weeks ago, now is not the time to ask what might be meant, but to read, learn and do what the new charter actually dictates-- in black and white. No guessing involved. Thad (city attorney) is completely willing and ready to do this. Give them time. We voted for the charter, now let council and the city attorney do their work. No doubt they will work diligently. When they come to the point that they are ready, I am sure we will be called to assist as needed. No disrespect for those interested in helping but the charter is law and cannot be interpreted at this time. It's a fine, strong document, step back and be ready to move if needed. Let council do what they have to do.
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Farmer Scott
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Guest at 5:48; The answer to your first question would be: NO. The answer to your next question would be: I have no idea.
Guest at 8:52; Your comments are noted. I'm hoping Council has your number since, I did not find any listings in Edgewater for Guest or Guests. 
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Guest
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| charter issues wrote: | | Our council is fully aware of the changes and legal ramifications of these changes in the charter. They will be working with the city attorney who will educate and counsel them through the changes. As was said a few weeks ago, now is not the time to ask what might be meant, but to read, learn and do what the new charter actually dictates-- in black and white. No guessing involved. Thad (city attorney) is completely willing and ready to do this. Give them time. We voted for the charter, now let council and the city attorney do their work. No doubt they will work diligently. When they come to the point that they are ready, I am sure we will be called to assist as needed. No disrespect for those interested in helping but the charter is law and cannot be interpreted at this time. It's a fine, strong document, step back and be ready to move if needed. Let council do what they have to do. |
You seem intent on stifling citizen discussion of the issue. I think everyone is fully aware that council has an attorney on the job. We all know the charter has passed and now rules our government. There is nothing harmful or wrong with people talking with each other to understand and embrace the new charter. I like that Farmer Scott continues to engage the citizens rather than sitting in a corner waiting for some speech from council on what the attorney said. Council and the attorney are doing their work. Their job is to govern the city within the guidelines of the charter. Their job is not the charter for the charter’s sake.
“I am sure we will be called to assist” I don’t know who ‘we’ are, but I’m sure council and the attorney needs no help from us. But that doesn’t mean we should sit in the corner with our mouths and our minds shut.
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charter issues
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My intent is certainly not to stifle or ask the citizens to shut up but to point out that the charter passed and it is now up to council and the attorney to implement it. After that is accomplished, with much work on their part, then we (the citizens) can be there to take on any tasks, commissions, etc. that need personnel to take on the duties as assigned and designated by council, the mayor and by the new city manager. I love the people voicing opinions. I do all the time. I just wanted to point out the charter is done and our opinion is a mute point right now. I think we need to wait a month or so, get some direction from council, then if they flounder, we certainly do need to step in. That is our duty.
Your feelings that I want to "stifle" are completely misconstrued. I just feel our time spent on discussing our ideas is not prudent at this time. But I have no doubt, that time is not too far down the road. 
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Mother Hen
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Opposing ideas presented do not dictate that one side or the other is trying to stifle the other. What it does indicate is constructive debate and that is good. This is a very active debate we have in this thread, lets keep it going and stop worrying about our own egos.
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