On Edge

Out There · On Edge

At last nights Council meeting Tex Edge brought up several issues regarding our City Manager. The one that stuck in my mind was his private meetings he holds with each individual Council person. They sit around and shoot the breeze an stuff. In, Mayor Pro tem, Kent Johnson’s case they spend a few minutes on City business and then take up the rest of the hour talking baseball. That’s what Johnson himself said last night. That’s some pretty expensive baseball rap there Councilman. The City Manager is on every agenda where he can speak to Council as a whole before the public. If an individual Council person needs to speak to the Manager on a specific issue, then they should call the manager. The Manager setting aside 1/5 of a forty hour work week to chat with individual Council members is non productive and a waste of time.
In the Managers comments to Council last night he spent most of his time talking about ERA issues. Gee I thought that was his part time job, you know, so he could make a car payment or something. Does the guy spend any time doing what he was hired to do? Oh well, it must just be me.

Out There

Another thought came to mind. Johnson said that at his meetings with the Manager the door was open. Am I to take that as an open invitation in the name of transparencey? How about it Mister Manager, are you going to to post the times a place where you hold these individual Council-Manager meetings? Are they really open to the public?

Guest

Ya know, I am getting really weary of this ranting on about our city manager. You seem to have a real grudge with him. Get over it, will you?
You are really getting pathetic. What is your point? And if you have one, please get to it.
That ridiculous display at council last night was completely unwarranted. Again, what was your point? To attempt to humiliate our new city manager? I think he has a lot more going for him than to allow your petty little rants to turn him into a whimpering ball of mush.
Let him do his job and quit trying to undermine everything he does.
Sometimes politics is just that. Politics. Again, what is your point?
If you really care about the people in this city then please quit your grandstanding and show some support for the good things that are happening.

Guest

Guest

First , I did not post any of the above!

Second, My words were of caution for this and future Councils and had examples of why I had these concerns.

Third, I did not expect all to understand, some did some did not. All I can do is try. The fact changes were made, shows some of my concerns were heard by fellow council members. All I could hope for.

Trying to protect Councils rights and those of the citizen should be what its about. Its not grandstanding.

And I always sign my name!

Tex Edge

Guest

I did post the original post. Tex, it was not about you or what you said last night.
You have a right as a councilman to state your opinions. And every citizen has that same right. This particular citizen abuses the hell out of that right and seems to want nothing more than to cause trouble for anyone she has a grudge against.
It gets really old.

Out There

June Moreno

I seldom post here but I do read the Talking Stick. I assume the "she" mentioned above refers to me. I have never complained about nor do I have any issues with HJ Stalf and the job he is doing as our City Manager. I have had issues with executive sessions in the past and have stood up in the public forum and made my feelings known.
Last night, I addressed the Council about a letter the Mayor sent out in which she clearly stated she was forming a committee. This is a violation of our City Charter Article 11.8. I also stated the Mayor had other options to achieve the same goal more fitting her position as the face of our community. I believe if you see a problem, offer a solution, which is exactly what I did.
I do believe in our new charter and certainly don't believe I nit pic. Council has repeatedly stated they want more citizens involvement and input and I agree with that.

Thank you
June Moreno

Devon Barclay · Openness

I am watching this thread.

The eyes have it

And we are watching you, with expectations.

Guest

Here’s something to watch.

A committee with no governmental control.

http://www.examiner.com/x-7762-De...ater-recycles-as-America-recycles

Guest · Go Citizen Recyclers!

it's all good, think I'll go hum "American The Beautiful" and crush a few cans

Patriot

Recyling is good, especially when done by citizens without government intervention. Global warming is still a myth.

Guest · Recycling rocks!

As always, Patriot, you are entitled to your opinion.

Guest

It seems to me that some committees with no governmental control are good.
Can you imagine if nobody ever questioned the FDA?
A lot of your freedoms and rights exist because of grassroots groups. Kind of like these forums give you the ability to complain about your government without their ability to edit.

Guest

The Talking Stick is not a committee.

Guest · The Talkingstick could be an ad hoc committee

but like most exercises in herding cats, it can't get itself organized enough to be a committee

oh, maybe not, a committee has to have something in common, a common goal, for example, so maybe the TS can't be a committee.

Guest · Re: The Talkingstick could be an ad hoc committee

Guest

precisely

Guest

"Herding cats" was brought into the Edgewater vernacular by Leeanna Hale during an interview about the Charter Committee back in 2008.
As I understand, Edgewater Government Committees may only be formed by ordinance or resolution according to 11.8 and 21.10 of the Charter. Of course citizens can create all the committees they want as long as they don't have their hands in the municipal taxpayers coffers, using City resources or acting under color of the City Seal as a sanctioned body of the municipal government.

Guest · John Dean: "Leading Democrats is like herding Cats"

I learned it else where. It's an old saying.

Guest · herding cats

Oct 21, 2009 ... Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, ...
-from the Daily Kos
another example of how variations of the phrase are every where.

this one in particular is a little reminiscent of Edgewater

Guest

Guest

Well, actually, you were speaking for your self not other people in Edgewater, which was sort of my point, now horribly belabored.

Jeeez jokin'

What's the topic on this thread?

Guest

Actually I was speaking for myself or at least my observations. I'm not very good at speaking for others. The topic is "On Edge". A very broad topic indeed. So now I will ask a question so others may speak for themselves.
What are you, Talking Stickians, "On Edge" about?

Take on Tex · 40 hours???

Tex takes on

Yeah, backroom deals are the way to go. Out of sight of that pesky public, we know who we are. We expect Council to do it's job and the Manager to do his, which is not controling Council. He works for them. Cheez. You just don't get it.

Guest

is this where we start talking about herding cats again?

OK

Actually at the last Council meeting, Kent Johnson as Mayor Pro tem, stated that Council had agreed to let the CM determine when a certain item should appear on the agenda (I think it was the CRCC rules of procedure). The rest of Council looked puzzled as they did not recollect that agreement. Now where did Kent get that idea? Probably in a private meeting with HJ.
It would seem to me that anything the Manager has to discuss with Council he should do so with all of Council in a Council meeting before the public. If a Council person has a question for HJ they can contact him at anytime. That's the way it works with the City Attorney.
You can have a cooperative environment and transparency without private meetings. Indeed the private meetings might be leading to desention and disagreement.
Just my two cents

Guest · Get a grip!

I am a huge fan of transparency. I vote for people who are huge fans of transparency HOWEVER it makes complete and obvious sense to me that an experienced and knowledgeable City Manager is acting in the City's interest when he takes it upon himself to meet individually with each and every Council person to develop a working rapport and share with them the ideas, knowledge and perspective gained from his considerable professional experience in city management.
This empowers Council to have more time, in a less charged atmosphere than a City Council meeting, to consider and learn about the complexities of the issues they face. Meetings such as these could provide time to explore options and unanticipated outcomes or hurdles they may encounter. They can brainstorm and problem solve, fact check and generally become more prepared to function well when they meet as a Council.
Just because they are talking with the CM does not mean they will necessarily agree with him on everything and at the end of the day they are still the ones with the vote.
They are , after all, elected officials who come from the ranks of our common citizenry, generally with no public administration education or experience. I want them to learn as much as they can and represent us with as much information as they can get!
Those meetings educate, facilitate question and answer communication, no doubt, clear up potential misunderstandings that have a habit of escalating into "in-fighting" and nurture good working relationships. They are, in short, a very smart (and might I add, generous) idea.
One-on-one communication is infinitely more efficient than the cumbersome, tangential, stifling, abbreviated, stunted (I have more modifiers I could use...) communication that stumbles along during public meetings.
One-on-one conversation to advance public policy is a common, time honored tool. There is no law against it nor should there be.
If you want in on the conversations, run for office. If you are in office and threatened by someone else's meeting with the CM call them up and meet with them. Council members could meet one-on-one all the time but they rarely do. They should reach out to each other individually and discuss Council issues a lot more, rather than simply meeting in Council Chambers, but they don't. Take a cue from your City Manager, communicate with each other!
But please (oh please!) do not go through all the effort and expense of hiring a kind, well intentioned, qualified, professional City Manager and then sandbag any innovation he offers. Especially because (forgive me for being so blunt but someone has to say it) of your petty, paranoid need to be included.
That is not how City Government works. It isn't a free for all. There is an organization chart, a chain of command.
If you need to talk to your City Manager, call him, maybe he can set up a time to talk with you to ease your fears.
I would genuinely hope you go get some help with these insecurity issues you seem to be having. I'll gladly give you more than two cents if you will go get some counseling. This is not intended as an insult. I think you would feel better if you had a better grasp of boundaries. I also think it might help you to participate more constructively with your community.
So, I'll see you and raise you more than two cents.

Jethro · Get a grip

You mean we have to focus on IMPORTANT issues.??? Them damn council members are talking about me and my dog Beau. Theres no way there doing anything to help the city.Who does the CM think he is. Me and my cousins aint goin to listen to outsiders. Damn if you havent been here for 30 years you dont deseve an opinion. City government worked fine then and we sure dont need to change it. If I go to a council meeting I dont expect no damn interruptions when I'm talking. Three minutes????. Its Obama's fault. Damn communists. Bring back the old Edgewater....Beau. Beau Bring me a PBR and make sure and shut the frig door.....

OK

You know, Guest of 12:08 pm, you put forth some good points until the very end where you launch into a personal attack on me and that just kind of altered the whole tone of your post. I don't disagree with one on ones with the CM and a Councilman. But it must be at the initative of the Councilman not a bi-weekly meeting hosted by the CM. As far a the job HJ is doing? At first blush he is doing very well (not crazy about him being the Director of ERA but that's another story). We have all heard the horror stories of out of control, power seeking City Managers. There is a reason and a way that happens and it generally can be blamed on weak City Councils allowing it to happen. There is a chart of organization and at the very top of that chart is the City Council and that is for a reaso. Otherwise why have any elected official at all? All we would need is a City Manager and a City Attorney and their staff.

Jethro · Ok

Me and Beau smell a council person. Council person. You sound like you love to micromanage and are into control. Lets see that leaves at least 5 council people this could be... Damn everybody loves transparency but no one uses their name.... Thats how it should be. Speak bad about people and no one knows who you are.No problems or conflicts are ever resolved. Hold on / Just opened another PBR and toasted THE Edgewater Way. I find city council meetings go much better on a six pack

Ed G Waters

What in the hell are you talking about Jethro? PBR? Damn boy, that there stuff will get you kilt. That damn dog of yourin can't even sit up an roll over let alone close the damn fridg. Hell, I'm still cleanin up the damn mess he made on my front room carpet. And I know I'm sure as hell ain't smart enough to figure out this Council and Manager stuff and I knowed your a hell of a lot dumber than me cause you drink PBR and Night Train. Get on over here ta my place an drink some of the good stuff an we can opine on the benifits of synthetic oil.

Guest · OK, OK - one issue at a time

OK

Common sense · Gossip game

Finally, some common sense people posting.
I have to agree that there seems to be a problem with a few of the posters' egos. Some of you seem to be scared to death that something might be mentioned that you don't hear. Well, did you not hear the offer to sit in on these meetings if you are so worried about back door deals? I heard it at the last council meeting.
What sort of back door deals do you suppose are going on?
Hmmm.
Let's start some gossip and see how many chains we can rattle. I'll start.
I think that the city council and the city manager are planning to pull the plug on the Ice Arena guys and sell the whole property to some developer for low income housing - oh, and a nursing home.
You could probably fit about half of Edgewaters population in there if the plan was properly (and secretly) executed.

Guest

OK....is that a moniker with any meaning? Because I seriously think you are not 'ok'. You are troubled, my friend. I certainly hope that you find some peace in that troubled mind of yours - and soon.

Guest · Topic 2 , OK

OK

Guest · Topic 3, OK

Jethro · Beau we got insulted.....

Them people //// What did granny say. Cant see the trees cause of the poo in their eyes???? What do you nimrods. Wait I'm on my 5th PBR. Want. Progress or a bunch of racoon dicks running the city??? A racoon dick is ....Newver mind.Stop feeling that you have to be in control. If you dont trust the people elected. And the people hired by them. Get out of Hooterville..... Beau get me a drink

Ed G Waters

Jethro get you damn racoon thangy to bed afor I'm forced to call yor Mama. Let these decent smart folk figure this out.
That damn boy can't differenticate the difference between a Town Council meetin and an AA meetin. I told his Mama to put his head in a bucket of water right after he was borned. My appologies to all you intelingicated folks.

yup

If ya can't dazzle them with brillance baffle them with bullshit. Right?

that's alright Ed...

Ed G Waters · OK

Guest of 4:46 pm
OK, now you are really scaring me. I'm not on Council but, by your account, I somehow feel threatened and need some sort of psychological counseling to correct my thinking because I dare question the actions of my government officials? A constitutional privilege afforded every citizen in the United States of America. Let's put your thinking into a historical context. Governments where questioning governmental authority was considered a condition of mental illness punishable by incarceration or worse yet, death.
Joeseph Stalins Soviet Union: 14 million dead
Adolph Hitlers Nazi Germany: 11 to 17 million dead
Pol Pots Khmer Rouge in Cambodia: 1.7 million dead
US Senator Joseph McCarthy's witch hunt in the 1950's: Thousands of carrers ruined
My fellow poster, I do not think it is I that needs counseling.

Guest · easy there...Eddie

let's set the way back machine to the original post, "what's got you on Edge?"
Comparing Stalin and Hitler to informational meetings with the City Manager is going a little too off topic for my taste. That's OK buddy, crack another Colt, you won't remember this tomorrow anyway.

nighty night

Guest · Re: OK

Jethro · Don't let them bug you Ed G Waters

Ed, I hear those colt 45 speed you up so you can keep up with THE COUNCIL. One of grannys great sayings: Three edgewater squirrels in the cooking pot with a quart of tequilla is better than the city council in the pot. I just sent beau to edgewater liquors to get more beer. He has a backpack . Money is inside. He barks they give him the beer. And my tip for delivery is a dog biscuit,,,,,, It took me and my cousins twenty years and three dog litters to make this work. We should be on council. Council meeting in edgewater equals money spent nothing done, Maybe the new grasshoppers on council can change things. Beaus back . Bring me another PBR.....

Last word · old trick

if you don't like what is posted above you, be sure to post under it so you can have the last word...i'm just saying...

Guest

I don't think the tyrant reference was to the Council/Manager situation. It more addressed the inane poster who equated questioning the government with mental health issues. Context is everything.

Guest

Hey I heard at Council last night that the Council was going to have a retreat outside of the City with the City Manager. We haven't had a retreat in Edgewater since the Sunshine law passed. What's wrong with an all day workshop? That way we can attend. They can cater in lunch and save a bundle of money.

Guest

Oh goodie! Another thing to bitch about.
Let's see how many mountains the moles can make out this molehill.
I'm sure its another one of those conspiracies. Gotta love those back door deals. And now they are doing it on the cities taxes.

Guest

The laws the law. If this retreat violates the open meetings act, then it's wrong. If not, then all is well. We will just have to wait and see. At least two of the new Council persons believe in full transparencey. If there is a problem they will bring it up.

Guest · dark conspiracies in Molehill...

Oh goodie! More drama, more subtrafuge BUT only possibly commited by five Councilpersons, the Mayor and the City Manager because apparently there are two Councilpersons who (how cutting edge!) believe in tranparency (how novel!)and therefore have been granted full immunity for any and all wrongdoing now and forever by a couple of Stickians.

Don't worry, we can trust those two because they are our friends. Not the rest of them though or there wouldn't be any drama or subtrafuge and we desperately need that! No, we must have that! Afterall, the law is the law even if they don't break the law, they might, maybe, sort of have broken the law

and if you don't have lawbreakers there's no need for the law and that's no fun. I mean what would we do with our time then?

Let the trial, I mean, the show begin!
Act I...

Guest

Talk about over reacting. OK, so maybe there are five who believe in tranceparancey. Or maybe all Council business should be conducted in executive sessions. Or maybe Council doesn't matter at all. Or better yet...................... (in a whinny voice) "LET THEM DO THEIR JOB!"
Good lord it's a good thing none of these people sit in a State or Federal seats. They just might wind up on SNL, FOX News or Talk Radio.

Guest

I think that the 4 old council members only SAID that they believe in transparency, thus tricking the voters into voting for them. But what they really wanted was to get on council and do all kinds of secret squirrel stuff.
Now I'm not saying that the new members tricked the voters, but if you read the stick enough you have to wonder if ALL council people lie to get on council just so they can do these backdoor deals.
I wish I knew this before I voted. Man - can't trust anybody. Maybe the Nazi's have it right.

An Involved Citizen

It's politics, as old as mankind itself. There are platforms and agendas, opinions and conspiracy theories, public expectations and yes even corruption from time to time. Politics is a rough game, always has been, always will be as long as you have two or more people gathered into a societal situation. So as they say......if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. So I'm not going to coddle these folks that made the choice to represent me and spend my hard earned tax dollars. If they do something I don't agree with, I'm going to let them know. That is my right, my God given Constitutional right. If somebody doesn't like that, then that is their problem, not mine.

Patriot

Ah yes it's the old American way.
Put your trust in God, keep an eye on your public officials and hang on to your wallet.

Guest

Clean it up

AMEN to that!

On Edge

Openness

Go Citizen Recyclers!

Recycling rocks!

The Talkingstick could be an ad hoc committee

Re: The Talkingstick could be an ad hoc committee

John Dean: "Leading Democrats is like herding Cats"

herding cats

40 hours???

Get a grip!

Get a grip

Ok

OK, OK - one issue at a time

Gossip game

Topic 2 , OK

Topic 3, OK

Beau we got insulted.....

OK

easy there...Eddie

Re: OK

Don't let them bug you Ed G Waters

old trick

dark conspiracies in Molehill...