Moved topic -budget, P&R, code and stuff

Fireworks my arse · Moved topic -budget, P&R, code and stuff

I agree with 'credit counselor'.
We really need to get our priorities straight.
The fireworks are great to watch, but we spend money on them like we are a big city with a big budget. Once a year we put on a big show. But what about the rest of the year when we are complaining that our streets have ruts and holes? Well, we don't have money in the budget to fix them properly.
We pay an outrageous sum of money to rent back a police station a previous administration sold for a pittance, and we can't afford to keep it in proper repair (the landlord sure as hell isn't doing it either - why? oh right. That previous administration signed a contract that says the city has to do it.) and we can't afford to buy a proper station.
Our fire department is all volunteer and we can't seem to cough up enough to keep them properly outfitted or give them decent equipment to voluntarilly save our sorry butts.
Our kids are running the streets after school and during the summer because we can't afford? proper programs for them. Oh yea, we CAN afford to pay an outrageous amount to hire someone to tell us we can't afford the programs.
I am probably of a different mind on the city manager. I think that spending money on someone to professionally manage our city is probably the best thing we can do. We are falling further and further into debt and our city is losing its community value.
I whole heartedly agree that the intangibles need to come from the community. We need to learn the value of volunteers and utilize them as best we can.
Fireworks? If the city keeps spending money as recklessly as they have in the past we will surely have fireworks. Just not the bright, pretty ones you want to see.

Priorities first

Fireworks my arse, Nice post--clear, precise, realistic and so on- target. Thank you for being a reasonable and concerned citizen. There are many in Edgewater like you. These are tough times, the Park and Rec director has done a great disservice to our children by failing to provide them with any programs. They are our future and we need to build their minds and bodies first.

Our police and fire department need money for their day to day operations, which the city has, but money for fire equipment and extra police necessities--a new building-- the city's sewers, water lines, streets-- these projects have to be first priorities.

The economy will change. Once we pay for our past government's blunders-- both local and national, and rebuild the economic base, maybe we can afford the fireworks again. We have to face the honest truth, we just don't have the funds to burn right now.

Lydias Champion · Not her fault

All of this is true, but I do want to say something about our P&R director. She is young and was, as I understand it, hired directly out of school. She was put in a department head position with little to no experience or direction from her boss, the mayor. Ronalda hired her and Bonnie has retained her. Neither of them has given her the proper guidance. Her performance has not been exceptional or even acceptable - however....the blame does not lay soley on her. She should have never been put into the position in the first place. And, if she was going to be retained then she needed to be retained with the understanding that she would need a lot more guidance. (I understand that this is a small city and we get very indignant over the very idea that somebody may be let go from their job, so I throw that option in there. Although, I do think this is not effective management) Although I do think that way too much is spent on the salary for a director of such a small town with a very small budget, I do believe that Lydia is the one who has suffered the disservice. You would not condemn a child for childish acts if you put that child into a position where they had no training in how to handle that position, and Lydia, though not exactly a child, is still new in her field and should have started out in an assistants position, not a department head.

Guest

Agreed. From the beginning Lydia has been caught in the middle of bad council/mayor relationships with little to no direction. To add insult to injury the city’s parks and rec volunteer board has been led to believe that their job is to ‘over-see’ Lydia’s programs. When it comes to parks and rec, Lydia hasn’t failed the city as much as the city has failed their staff and their citizens.

Guest

Not sure how the board was 'led' to believe their job was to oversee the directors programs. I think the board - or at least a couple of them - decided it was their job. In the previous charter their 'job' was, at the request of the mayor, to advise on a master plan for the department. This has been turned into the board having 'oversight' on the director. This, I believe, is carried over from previous boards that worked closely with the director in creating and producing programming for the city. The boards have self-defined their purpose over time and Councilman Cooke is really the only one who has said, "Wait a minute, this is not the job of the board."
I do believe, unlike Cooke, that a board could be a good thing. (His thought is that there is no board for the other departments, why should there be one for P&R) A productive board would work closely with a productive director to create productive programs for the cities kids. Currently none of that is status quo. Currently the board is defunct because they have not been redefined by the council. The council has not redefined the board because there is too much bickering between the mayor and director and board to even consider that they could be productive working together.
The director is not productive for many reasons, first and foremost, in my opinion, she is too inexperienced for the position. BUT, she also has a very small budget to work with - that can't be helped- and she has no real guidance from her boss - the mayor. Now, with all that said, the mayor can't be held completely at fault either. We elected her, incompetencies and all. What experience does she have in directing a P&R director? None. So it would be like the blind leading the blind, even if she were leading. The whole system is bad. That is why I believe it is prudent to have a professional who is experienced in leading and directing. A city manager is a long overdue asset in this town. The salary he or she will get is a pittance in comparison to the money we, as a city, have squandered on bad deals, inefficiencies, inadequacies, and just plain idiocy.

Guest

Watching

Exactly how has the Board interfered with the Director or even tried to micro-manage the Director? They have been cheap labor for the Director at her every request. The old Charter stated:

11.8 Functions of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. The Parks and Recreation Advisory board shall prepare and submit to the Mayor a proposed master plan for the development and maintenance of a modern park system and shall cooperate with the Mayor in preparing the portions of the proposed City budget pertaining to parks and recreation.

The Director on more than one occasion said that she should write the P&R Master Plan (a duty that was clearly defined in our past Charter and still exists without clear legislation abandoning it) . The Board has never been given the opportunity to advise the Mayor on the budget (another past Charter mandate not yet changed through legislation) because the Director always ran interference. It has never been an issue of the Board not cooperating with the Director but it has always been an issue of the Director undermining the responsibility of the Board.
It must be remembered that the same people on the P&R Board are also the Tree Commission. These are the same folks that wrote a Tree Master Plan that is now a model plan nationwide even though our own City Council and P&R Director chooses to ignore it in the budget process. The former Chair Person of the P&R Board continues to show up to Council and save the Directors butt. How is that not cooperating?
I ask again, give me one instance of the Board trying to micro-manage the P&R Director? All they ever asked for was the budget (which they never received) to fulfill their obligation to the Mayor. All they want to do is work on the P&R Master Plan with the "professional" consultation of the Director. And we want to eliminate these folks? Ridiculous.

Guest

Now you’re starting to make some sense. It is the mayor’s purview to use, not use, create or not create a master plan. That is what separation of power is about. The only obligation of the board is to assist when asked. The mayor is not obligated to ask.

Guest

'the word on the street' came from the last council meeting. It's on record. The council, with approval from the mayor, is using funds from the Open Space reserve to purchase a professional master plan. There really wasn't a lot of options. The P&R director stated that she could not work with the board. The mayor does not want the P&R director to try to do the plan herself. Apparently, she has about as much confidence in her ability to do it herself as the board does. The director appears unable to execute a proper program without the guidance of a plan, so what else is left?
AND, in answering that, please keep in mind that any personnel issues must be dealt with by the mayor - not the board and not council.
Watching - yes, there are fireworks all over the place. As far as the monetary and image building benefits - well, I would have to see your stat sources on that.

Watching

The simple solution is to rewrite the ordinance to bring the Board into balance with the new Charter. There is a need for a P&R Board as there is in every other municiplaity that has a P&R Program. It should not be the duty of the Board to have oversight on the P&R Director (the Board already understands this) but it is the duty of a P&R Director to work with the Board (our Director does not understand this). In just about 99% of Municipalities it is the duty of the Board to prepare a P&R Master Plan with the assistance of professional advisors. But this is Edgewater and it is far easier to eliminate the Board put up with an unqualified Director, follow a lame duck Mayor and underfund the preperation of a P&R Master Plan.

Guest

Guest

Careful. The charter doesn’t address a Parks and Recreation Board. Suggesting a ‘simple’ way to bring it into balance would be to abolish it.

Watching

Then abolish it but, don't cry when you don't have a "say" in your P&R program. After all why would we wan't any common citizen involved in our government, they just get in the way and muck things up. According to that thinking, we don't really need a Board of Adjustments, Planning and Zoning or the yet to be CRCC. Heck, we don't really need a City Council. The Manager and Department heads can do it all by themselves, they don't need us telling them how to do their jobs. I like it! It's very.....ummmmm.....socialistic. Maybe even a bit Marxist.

Change? · Then stand up.

It's quite obvious to me that we do need some citizen involvement in the P&R department. Our current (and I say that with the utmost of hope for the future ) director is in way over her head. And her boss, the mayor, isn't even 'in'. She just stands by the sidelines making stupid jabs at everybody, refuses to make any attempt at working with council, and is as ineffective as her woman-child she is supposed to be directing. Both this mayor and the previous mayor have apparently decided that it is their job to protect Lydia as if she were their own child. I thought we elected a mayor, but we elected a mommy, who at this point, has only one child in her heart and to hell with the rest of the city.
It is up to the citizens to demand better if that is what they want.
The problem is that people in this town, despite the progress we have made in the last few years, are still afraid to stand up and speak their minds. It is the small town mentality that is not ever going to change until enough people stand up and make it happen.
We are getting a city manager soon. But a city manager is not going to change the mentality of the whole. In fact, the CM is more than likely to adapt to that very mentality that needs changing.
So, if you want change, make it happen now. Don't expect a city manager to do it for you.

Guest

Oh great! Here we go again. Change! That’s it! That’s the solution! Change!

Mind tell us just you have in mind - that might actually be doable?

Guest

This is not a partisan issue. This is a citizen issue. If you have a problem with change then you are probably not the one to discuss it with. But since you asked -
Take back your city. Make it what YOU want it to be. Let the council and the Mayor know - in BIG voices and large numbers - what you want. If you are not happy letting the mayor baby a PAID parks and rec director, if you are not happy letting them squander Open Space funds that are meant to provide quality services for you and the children in this city, if you believe that our kids deserve better than an egg hunt and making holiday cards as their sole source of the 'recreation' part of Parks and Recreation - then TELL THE PEOPLE YOU ELECTED THAT YOU ARE NOT HAPPY!
Two or three people are not going to make a big impact on the mayor or council. They are too used to a few people coming to council, whining about one thing or another and then cowering at any dissention. If you want change, you have to be willing to fight for it. At some point they will get it that they do not run the city.

Guest

I know this isn’t a partisan thing but I also know that the people in Edgewater constantly say things like “you have to do this” and “they have to do that” while all the time the person preaching never does anything. At least someone mentioned a petition. Are we going to see it? Are you going to do anything? Or are you just going to suggest that everyone else needs to stand up?

I don’t have a problem with change and I do make my voice heard. I have expressed my thought with council members. I ask again, what are YOU going to do? What are you going to do to get the people involved? Door-to-door? Flyers? Phone banks? What?

I’m a bit intolerant this morning because I’m tired of all the empty rhetoric. I would love it if citizens really did care enough to make a change. But in reality, at best, most people do little more than vote and complain. God bless those who dare to get elected.

my 2 cents

One thing that would help is if council will hire a City Manager, who along with the rest of the city officials, will manage this city like the business entity it is, not like a dysfunctional extended family. Council, the Mayor, the department heads, are going to have to draw the lines. There is a local economy depending on this. Council will need to listen to the agency representing our city to find a professional-forget about if they are "affordable" or "up and coming". There is plenty of money in the budget for a professional manager. This is after all, a small city. Get an experienced manager. We cannot afford to hire another "newbie." That is where change will come in. With a professional working with council, mayor, and department heads.

JamieMac · Make a stand

I am one of those people who tries to make change, but even as a council member, I cannot do it myself. And chances are it will take more than a few of you to do it.
I agree that sometimes the voices of the few get lost in city decisions. I do believe that it takes the whole community to instigate a change sometimes. A passive voice in the dark is not going to cause a lot of commotion.
There are a couple of instances that I can recall that did make a difference, and it happened because a large enough group of people came and spoke their minds. The 'covenant control' issue and the breed band are two that got a huge response. Neither one of them happened because the community got together and let the city know their opinion.
If you want change you have to be willing to stand up for it.
Use this forum to do more than just complain about who is not doing what. Use it as a starting point for opinions, but take those opinions outside of this forum and meet up with your neighbors. Ask for their opinions and their voices. Make this your city. Not the mayors and not the councils. We work for you.

Watching

OK lets try this on for size. You already have a P&R Board ready and willing to write the P&R Master Plan. They don't need the Mayors permission, it is one of their defined duties. They only have to present it to the Mayor. Old Charter (it is all we hve to go on sans an ordinance):

11.8 Functions of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. The Parks and Recreation Advisory board shall prepare and submit to the Mayor a proposed master plan for the development and maintenance of a modern park system and shall cooperate with the Mayor in preparing the portions of the proposed City budget pertaining to parks and recreation.

As Council, go ahead and hire the $10,000 professional and put him to work with the aid of the P&R Board. That is the way it is supposed to work. He gets citizen input and involvement upfront. It is the Boards duty to go out and get the public involved and through the P&R Board meetings provide a conduit to the citizens. That in a nutshell is the whole purpose and reason for the P&R Board.

Guest

The Council is going to hire a $10,000 pro to write the PRMP. Who is going to oversee this person? The Council or Mayor? It would seem they have other things to tend to. The P&R Director who doesn't listen to anybody and is totally disconnected? Why in the world are we getting rid of the PR Board? They have already written a Tree MP.
This is just crazy.

Farmer Scott · Likin' to bow sTUfh-t up!

I love the PASSION. Not sure, how 10K approval for a master plan got this far? This link and posts have run a muck. I believe this peticular forum was to be about FIREWORKS, or the lack there of. Like a current city elected: I Agree: AMERICANS LOVE TO BLOW STUFF UP. KAAABOOOOOOMMMM!!!
THE FARMER AGREES. However, he is rarely in town at this time and would rather light the match himself. Like, he always did as a child.
This whole argument and others should continue up until WE have a CITY MANAGER. The Farmer has been absent mainly for these reasons........Doesn't like to waste his bad breathe. I dearly love the people I have met in this great city, I just DON'T agree with them all. I have NO alliances to anyone that does not live within the limits and conducts themselves in a matter that is not for the best of this town. ............KINDA GOTTA LIVE HERE!!!!!
That's it,
THE FARMER

PS HAPPY TURKEYDAY, TO ALL"FAMILIES RULE", PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE GIMME SUM GOOD FOOTBALL.

Guest · Sec. 2-12-20. Duties.

Guest

Thank you Guest of 10:13. And like it or not, the Freakin mayor AIN'T REQUESTING IT!
If you have a problem with that, take it up with the mayor.

Guest

That ordinance is as obsolete as the old Charter it refers to.

Guest

No. It was the 12th ordinance presented in the year 2008. (looke at it number - Ord. 12-0

It was passed as a result of the new charter.

Guest

It doesn’t matter. What is listed above is from our current code book. The reference isn’t to an ordinance. The reference is Article 12 of the Edgewater Municipal Code book.

http://www.colocode.com/edgewater/edgewater_02.pdf

Guest

Guest of 10:13

Guest

I take it you haven’t read 12-08. It’s purpose was to take elements of the old charter (11.7) and bring it into compliance with the current charter. The new charter said that existing boards and commissions were to remain. That is why in accordance with 11.7 of the old, the section that created the p/r board, the board still exists.

from the new charter

(7) The City Council may, by ordinance, consolidate or abolish any board or commission established
pursuant to this Section 11.1 of the Charter, but shall not consolidate or abolish those boards or
commissions expressly set forth in Sections 11.2 through 11.6 below.

here is the link to the new charter if you want to look at more of it
the above is on page 19

http://www.edgewaterco.com/The%20Charternew.pdf

Attorney Wanted · a little help please

In keeping with the talkingstick tradition of self interpretation of local law, I read this to mean that the council could have abolished the p/r board, but instead voted on Ordinance 12-08 which re-created it as was set forth in the old charter under 11.7.

Right? Wrong? I’m getting very confused.

Confused

I just hope when we do get a City Manager that he or she can negotiate City business and contracts without approval from Council. Otherwise why did we do it, because it will still be a big mess with nothing accomplished. If we could have moved faster with the 20th and Depew site, something would have been built by now. As it stands now that site will be vacant for another four years until the economy improves or somebody is stupid enough to loan 15 - 30 million for an ice rink.

12-08? · Attorney Wanted

"In keeping with the talkingstick tradition of self interpretation of local law, I read this to mean that the council could have abolished the p/r board, but instead voted on Ordinance 12-08 which re-created it as was set forth in the old charter under 11.7."

When did council vote on 12-08? It's from the old charter not the new one? Boy I am confused, too. I can't imagine the attorney letting that get by. U sure?

Waiting

You tell me. Quite frankly I don't think even they know what they are doing. It's like a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off. The more things change the more they are the same. First they want a P&R Board then they don't. They seem to be afraid of appointing the CRCC, I can see why. These people we elected are not Gods, they are just like you and me and quite honestley I don't know that I could do any better in their seat. But, I have to "calls em as I sees em". The New Charter is the most important issue facing this Council and they want to continue operating under the good old boy system. I have no clue as to where the Mayor is coming from.
Like I stated before, read the controlling document (the New Charter), it is written in plain English. I guess it all boils down to what the word "is" is.

Guest

What part of "It's on the agenda" don't you understand?
Too bad council doesn't move fast enough for your tastes, but in case you didn't notice they are in the middle of a budget, hiring a new city manager and just trying to keep up with what absolutely has to be done at this point. They are in council until 10:30 to 11:00 every week. Give them a break!

The Ordinance

Let’s try this on for size.

First of all the charter isn’t the be-all, end-all of guiding legislation. Resolutions, the municipal code and the charter all count.

Ordinance 12-08 has nothing to do with the charter. As mentioned above this is all in the Edgewater Municipal code book, which was recently codified. In the process it was re-numbered to be more consistent with ‘standards’ across the country. If you can get your hands on an ‘old’ code book look up Sec. 16-2. It is word for word what is now Sec. 2-12-20. You will also find a Charter reference 11.7 (remember we are looking at the old code book) creating the board.

Ordinance 12-08 Section 1 states:

The Code entitled the Edgewater Municipal Code published by Colorado Code Publishing Company, consisting of Chapters 1 though 18, with Appendix, Tables and Index, is hereby adopted. .....

If you look at the old code book all references to the ‘as requested by the mayor’ have been in effect since at least 1993, and possibly as early as 1974.

None of this is new. I am surprised that the chair of the parks and rec board is not familiar with the municipal codes that govern the board.

Bottom line: the charter has nothing to do this and all 12-08 did was accept the hard work of the re-codification company.

Guest · Re: Attorney Wanted

Guest

Listening and Laughing · Four Questions

Three questions:
1. Did Council read the recodified Municiple Code before they voted to enact it?
2. Didn't anyone notice the Muni Code was going to be inconsistent with the new Charter?
3. Who's job is it to update the Muni Code to bring it in compliance?
No. Four questions.
4. Aren't you glad we will soon have a City Manager who understands this stuff?

Guest

Who says we can afford to hire anyone who will understand it. My guess is they will low ball the pay and get someone right out of school. Look at the qualifications for a treasurer and the pay scale. I think we require a GSD and salary range of 35, 000 -45,000

I am sure we will get what we pay for.

Listening and Laughing · feeling cynical, huh?

well, who can blame you...

Guest

Salary range is 37,000 to 44,000 per year and a GED or better.

About the same pay range as a meter maid or a Denver trash truck operator.

The Harlander

You elected these people to represent you, have some faith in them. They are faced with some historic challenges. First, a major change, in form of government, unheard of in Colorado with the exception of Broomfield becoming a City and County rivaling Denver. The issue of our CRCC, unknown territory any where in America, a local Supreme Court. Finally, the issue of eminent domain, we set seismic activity with that one. Be patient and let our Council, Mayor and City Attorney sort it out. We placed some big demands upon them, give them the respect and dignity to deal with those demands in a time of national challenges. Then make you voice heared next November. That will be a Keystone Municipal election.

thank you

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
Harlander......
LET them do their JOB... If your not at council meeting Like some of us are every week , then you should just shut your traps and let them move through this process and STOP your back seat legislation.
These people are doing what they aer being told to do by the Lawyer.
SO whats your problem just because your not getting what you WANT .. and it not moving at YOUR pace YOUR having a pissy fit.
I for one think this Council Has been the MOST productive one that I have seen .. They do NOT table everything and they study the issues and are on top of things as much as they can be .,.
SO BACK OFF!!!!!!!

Patience · The treasurer, the code and the council...

Yes, council is aware of the inconsistencies with the code and the charter. Unfortunately, when the charter was written, this wasn't addressed, and even if it had been, it goes without saying that the code book is huge and it will take some time to make it consistent with the charter. There is $30,000 extra in the attorneys budget just for this very thing. Give it some time. There are a lot of changes and decisions to be made. It isn't - and shouldn't - happen overnight.
I do happen to be in a position to know that there is sufficient money allocated for a decent treasurer. The job is in finding one and not settling for the first one that comes along. The search needs to be more thorough than it appears to be. There is talk that this is happening so that the interim treasurer gets the job. That would be a huge mistake. Aside from her on and on droning at council, she really hasn't made a very good impression as to her abilities. She talks a lot and says very little. I hope that this is not the case.

Listening and Laughing · Sometimes you gotta laugh...

I'm not being critical of Council. I asked a few questions, that is all. I suppose my point is, if the code isn't consistent with the Charter -and everyone knows it - then how can the code be used to guide such issues as the role of the Parks and Rec. Advisory Board?
It wasn't the Charter Commissions job to address the Muni code. There was a new Charter and then you bring everything else in compliance with it. That is the way it properly works, isn't it?
According to the code this board is answering to the wrong person (the Mayor) already. This is just an example, only for the sake of argument, but you get my drift, right?
You can't do anything about Parks and Rec. relying on an obsolete code, even if Council did approve it's codification after the Charter election, can you? Really?

Tired

I'm so tired of thinking about this.

Since council obviously has their plate full and obviously isn't going to get this all done any time soon, let's come up with some new issues to discuss.

I heard something about Santa Claus wimping out on roughing up the little guys over their ineffectiveness. (Seems it's happening everywhere) So now, the citizens have to step up and take care of the little rugrats. Now, you want to see a real problem, let those kids wake up Christmas morning to an empty tree. Talk about serious emotional issues!!! And that translates to hoodlums when they hit those teen years and start to believe that Santa isn't real. Yes, I know. Why do we have to cover Santa's butt? Well, for the same reason that we have to step up and do what's right when WE elect an ineffective mayor or council person. It's our city. And if we want to live in a great city, then we do the best we can to keep it that way.
Do you think the firefighters volunteer because they like waking up in the middle of the night to rescue some sorry fool who left a candle burning when they went to bed? No. But they do it because they love our city.
So instead of whining about the charter, the code, the boards, etc., etc., etc.........
Why don't you go on down to the city hall and pick a name off the giving tree and keep some little rugrat off the street?

Guest · Re: Sometimes you gotta laugh...

Waiting

Guest · A little disturbing...

Are some of the members doing this, or is the board doing this? Is it being done in private or public? Is the board working as a group or are individuals starting a grass roots campaign?

JamieMac. · grassroots

Nothing wrong with grass roots campaigns. But be very, very careful that your solution doesn't destroy the cause.
It's been know to happen. Right rowdies?

Guest

Rowdies? They should be fine. It's the Rabbles that you have watch out for.

JamieMac. · rabbles too

I think they are the same general species. You have the rabble rousers who incite the rowdies to, well, get rowdy. But they all come from the same general vicinity of Rowdyville.
I'm sure you all know who you are.

RR · Open Letter To Council

On the topic of the volunteer park and recreation board. This shouldn't have to be as contentious as grassroots organizing.
I don't think it should fall to the volunteers to "create themselves" and then have to go begging to City Council to approve of their goals and objectives and sanction them (or not)
If that is the way you treat volunteers don't ask for anyone to volunteer. It's way too much work. Volunteering should be rewarding and facilitated by those in a position to assist them because volunteers, by definition, have no legitimate power of their own. If you are giving your time away for free you have a right to expect the resources you need to accomplish the task you have been asked to do. This requires some top down leadership.

If Edgewater's city staff and elected officials don't want to use volunteers or don't have the time to assist them in their work then they shouldn't ask for them. If you don't know what you want them to do at least do the honorable thing and either work with them to set some goals or let them go.

It shouldn't be their job to convince you of the importance of Parks and Recreation programs. You either support it - and them - or you don't but don't create a board you don't intend to support.

Guest

RR · Thank you for the clarification.

That makes sense. Thank you, whoever you are, for communicating what actually happened during the Council meeting.
Were these volunteers notified, in writing, about their new status as a matter of courtesy or were they just out of luck because they weren't at the meeting?
A little courtesy and communication goes a long way to demonstrate appreciation for volunteers.

Guest

FYI: Council did not take any action to officially suspend the P&R board. They didn’t vote on anything when the board was on the agenda. The above stated ‘conclusion’ is nothing more than someone deriving a Parks and Rec Bboard action from a budget decision.

Good communication does go a long way, but mis-information is dangerous.

Guest

I suspect the P&R Board will pretty much self distruct without any purpose or reason to meet. First one member will drop off and not be replaced then another and another. It's a shame, they did such a nice job on the Tree Plan. The real tragedy is that we still have no viable programs for our youth.

Guest · "Tis a Pity

It is true, it is a pity there is no viable program for our youth. These concerns can only be resolved by the Parks and Rec. Director and the Mayor. I hear the P&R Director says she is underfunded.
I read the Tree Masterplan, when the old city website was still up. What became of it? Is it being implemented? Does anyone know?

Guest

The whole city is underfunded. We do, and always have depended on the big-hearted volunteers of Edgewater. It is not fair, or true, to point fingers at any individual and say they are the reason we don’t have a youth program. Listen to the old-timers. We used to have great programs run by volunteers, not staff. Is it a shame? Sure. As for the parks and rec board, I think they have great purpose and reason to meet. The board needs council to pass a defining ordinance to solidify and modify their purpose. The times have changed. Unlike the historic commission (who by the way worked very hard on their ordinance), council did not create the parks and rec board, they inherited them. This isn’t council’s priority, why should council drop everything to brainstorm how these volunteers can best serve the city? Communication really does go a long way. The board needs to communicate. What they communicate should come from the board and not one or two people. That’s why they need to meet. They are in transition and they need to talk about it, all of them, together, in public, not a couple of them, over drinks in someone’s living room. This is an opportunity for the board to influence how they serve the community. If they don’t step up, we are going to lose them completely. Then who’s going to think about the youth?

Guest

There is 20,000 in the budget for the tree plan. It's under conservation trust.
Although I agree that the P&R department is underfunded, I also believe that it is sorely underrepresented. We do need a board of volunteers. And they need to be a bigger part of the department, especially considering the budget. Volunteers are priceless - and quite inexpensive. I have heard the stories of how well run the department was when volunteers were the sole department. It's a shame that we have to spend a large sum of our money on a director that can't manage to develop anything close to what volunteers could.

Guest

I have never posted on this but I have to now. I have a grown son who while he grew up in Edgewater over the last 20 years there have never been any worthwhile kids programs. I laugh that you say the P&R department was better in years past. Anything my son did had to be done in Lakewood or Wheatridge since Edgewater never had anything

Guest · To: Guest of Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:31 pm

OK, just off the top these statements seem to be a contradiction. What are you trying to say?

Guest · Blind Faith and Hard Work

Okay, call me naive, but I do believe in the passion of volunteers.

IF the board needs council or the mayor or the director to support the words of the old charter then you are absolutely correct. Stalemate.

IF the board takes the lead, puts their ideas together and redefines their potential they will have something to present to council and the rest of the city. Council, the mayor or the director certainly are not going to invest the time and I doubt if they have the passion. New ideas will either come from the board or they won't come at all.

IF the board wants to be sanctioned by the city then there is always going to be a lot of process. It isn’t easy but it is doable. Mostly because no one else wants to do it. That gives the board a chance to be the first to lay the groundwork. No one is entitled to authority, but if the board puts forth a good idea maybe some one will give it to them.

IF the board feels that the process is doomed, and the passion of a few is still there, then take it out of the political arena and put in a ‘grass roots’ citizen’s project.

I guess my bottom line point is, I don’t think the board really wants much more than political empowerment. I don’t feel that about all of the individuals on the board, but as a body I don’t see much other than quotes from an old charter used to play politics.

It is sad to read that the rumors of past programs aren’t true. I really wanted to believe that volunteers had done something great. Maybe it can’t be done. But I still believe...

Watching

I have never seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe the P&R Board is "hostile" to the Director, on the contrary the Board has tried to work with the Director down to the member, regardless of rumor. As volunteers they can only run into so many walls before the will to contribute any more effort vanishes. I fear that just may be the case at present. The Chairman of the Board has stated that he will call no more meetings until directed by the Mayor, Manager or Council. It would seem the ball is in the political leaderships court.

RR · How EW P&R could be a lot more

This is an example of what you could be. http://www.spokaneneyc.org/news_profile.php?id=42

Geez

I never felt we needed an after school program to keep kids busy. I never have a problem keeping my kids busy. When they come home from school they do homework first and if they don't have an assignment we do something together as a family. I never had a P&R after schools rec program growing up and I turned out just fine. It's called personal responsibility. I sure would not want to replace that with a Edgewater ran Govt program.

Guest

Has anyone looked into doing it the other way around? Isn’t it the parent’s job to teach a child self-esteem and basic life skills? I say we’re trying to treat the symptom, not the disease. The resources need to go into making better parents. At-risk kids aren’t created because of the lack of city funded teen-age day-care. It starts in the home. Fund programs that get parents together and provides them with resources. Programs that support and teach parents the skills they need to understand and support their kids. We could do a lot with a meeting room, a website and a few good mentors. You can’t make the parents show up any more than you can make the kids show up, but I think we’d get a better bang for the buck focusing on the needs of the parents.

Just a thought....

Watching

What part of Parks and Recreation involves social engineering? Recreation folks, soccer, flag football, t-ball, volleyball etc. Activities of a fun nature and yes that would include arts & crafts. Parental involvement is suppose to be a given. As a matter of fact we could use a bunch more adult activities to boot.

Moved topic -budget, P&R, code and stuff

Not her fault

Then stand up.

Make a stand

Likin' to bow sTUfh-t up!

a little help please

Attorney Wanted

Re: Attorney Wanted

Four Questions

feeling cynical, huh?

The treasurer, the code and the council...

Sometimes you gotta laugh...

Re: Sometimes you gotta laugh...

A little disturbing...

grassroots

rabbles too

Open Letter To Council

Thank you for the clarification.

"Tis a Pity

To: Guest of Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:31 pm

Blind Faith and Hard Work

How EW P&R could be a lot more