to: get a clue

get a clue

First off if your going to have programs for the kids dont you think you should check into the time and dates as to when they are in SCHOOL.. the 3 programs that are slated for "This" summer aren't even starting until the kids go back to school and the time they start is way to close to the time the kids get out of school I know. mine doesn't get out until 3;20 so how well was that planned. Summer is JUNE JULY .Thats when we need things for the kids not when they are back in school don't ya think???

Guest · to: get a clue

All very valuable feedback. I would suggest you direct your comments to Lydia our Parks and Rec. Director because ultimately she is the one who approves the contracts. There may have been extenuating circumstances that resulted in this time frame for the classes. Regardless, I'm sure she would welcome your thoughts.

parksandrec@edgewaterco.com <parksandrec@edgewaterco.com>

tired of excusses

Geee Whiz Opie!!
Many people have brought it up to her. How many times can you suggest something?
I for 1 get tired of the standard P$R comment of "oh! they'll get over it "
When the ears don't listen then what good is it to talk to them.

Guest

Somebody is good at artsy doublespeak. I heard they want $26,000 to do this program. Art is all good and fine but we also need our kids up and moving in physical activities. I heard that the P&R Board had done some research on some very good summer programs, what happened to them?

Guest · rumor, rumor, rumor

You heard, did ya? Wish I had a nickle for everytime I heard that!
and what's with this "leaked e-mail"? Could it be somone is trying to sway public opinion...?
Can we please stop acting like children?!

Devon Barclay · Summer programs

For more than 2 years now, the Parks and Recreation Board have been recommending Summer Programs, and outlined the costs such programs would face. For 2006's buget, the mayor didn't want to go there. For 2007, we couldn't afford it (though Council requested P&R to come back later for supplemental funding to make it happen - and that application was never made).

I'm including below the full proposal from 2007. The figures will need to be adjusted for this year, but it's a program that's ready to go.

>>>

Edgewater Summer Youth Program

Information
Edgewater Elementary Lumburger Elementary
(303)982-6050 (303)982-6182

Summer Break
May 29 through July 30 June 2 through August 12

Student Total
398 Students 485 Students
1st through 5th Grade 1st through 5th Grade
74 Students in Kindergarten 57 Students in Kindergarten
45 Students in 6th Grade 77 Sudents in 6th Grade

87% receive free or reduce lunches 70% receive free or reduce lunches

Summer Youth Program:

Two, five weeks of summer fitness
Tuesday and Thursday Morning
3 Ages Groups for 3 Classes
1st Class --- 6 to 7 Years old
2nd Class --- 8 to 9 Years old
3rd Class --- 10 to 11 Years old
1 Instructor to 6 Children
Each class is 1 hour long

1st Week Class Tennis
Rain out Beginners Aerobic

2nd Week Class Field Hockey
Rain out Kick Ball

3rd Week Class Lacrosse
Rain out Badminton

4th Week Class Soccer Ball
Rain out Dodge Ball

5th Week Class Flag Football
Rain out Basketball

Equipment
Tennis:
Tennis Rackets Class Kit Wolverine Pg 222 Junior Size 199.00
Seniors Size 249.00
Balls Economy Practice Wolverine Pg 222 120 Pack 69.50
Pro tm 85 Ball pu Wolverin Pg 224 one 29.95
Tennis Tutor Pro Life Nasco Pg 47 one 547.95

Aerobic:
Fitness Step 4’ Green 10 Pack 8 Wolverine pg 13 289.00
Trampoline Wolverine pg 81 49.50ea X2 99.00
Hop/Jump Balls Wolverine pg 81
Jump Rope Nasco pg 3 7ft .98x24 23.52
Jump Rope 2 Nasco pg 3 8ft 1.03x24 24.72
Hoops Nasco pg 3 24in dia 48.95
Hoops Nasco pg 3 30in Dia 1doz 51.95
Parachute 20foot Nasco pg 109 126.00
Fitball Burst Resistant Palos pg 22 17.95ea X3 53.85

Field Hockey:
Elementary Junior Hockey Set (36”) Nasco pg 160 112.50
Gain Hockey Set (42”) Nasco pg 160 133.95
Helmet with wire cage Nasco pg161 47.50ea x12 570.00
Hockey Puck Nasco pg 161 8.25

Kick Ball:
Kickball Pack Wolverine pg 8 109.95
6 WAKA Balls Wolverine pg 8 52.50

Lacrosse:
Easy Catch Nasco pg 38 154.50
McWhipit Nasco pg 38 208.00
Champion Sports Nets Nasco pg 39 76.55

Badminton:
Economy Class Kit Wolverine pg 218 87.50
Yonex Mavis-7 Wolverine pg 220 19.50
Net Nasco pg 146 30.75

Soccer Ball:
Rubber Soccer Balls Nasco pg 42 Size 4 12 balls 65.10
Rubber Soccer Balls Nasco pg 42 Size 5 12 balls 67.00

Dodge Ball:
Rhino Skin Dodge Balls Wolverine pg 3 12 balls 119.00

Flag Football:
Flag Football Pack Wolverine pg 104 119.00

Basket Ball:
Mini Basketball palos sports pg 66 5.75ea 12 Balls 69.00
Wilson palos sports pg 66 size 7 10.95 ea 12 Balls 131.40

Bocce:
Popular Bocce Set Wolverine pg 67 36.95ea 2set 73.90

Vest:
Pinnies Wolverine pg157 dozen 24.95

Total for Equipment--------------------------------------------------- 4045.09
( This total does not reflect instructor time)

Guest · Wrong person for the job?

I have to wonder if this would not be a waste of money at this point for this summer. It is into the last half of July. These types of programs should be in place before school lets out. The families should be notified of them (maybe through the schools?) before summer. Families plan their vacations for summer. They need this heads up in order to plan around these activities.
I am sorely disappointed in the performance of our current P&R director. However, this is her first job out of school, and she was put into a position that requires experience to properly administer. This position is way above her skill level.
She had high ambition. Unfortunately, those who hired her - and those who allow her to remain - are at fault. She does have a boss. And that boss needs to do her job.

Too late for this summer

School starts August 12 this summer!! Too little, too late. Another year with no physical activities or sports for the youth. Card making just doesn't cut it as the sole source of kid's recreation.

Our poor kids just don't seem to matter to the current director.
Poor performance. Where is her accountability? She has been in the position long enough to have produced programs for the youth of our city. Her boss should demand performance to justify her salary.Thank heavens the ice ranch will give our youth some physical challenges and activites in the upcoming seasons. Certainly looking forward to that.

Guest · Excuses

I can see the excuses now - and the mayor backing her up...

Council didn't approve the funds.
I thought that council wasn't in favor of that.
I left a message, but haven't got a return call.
I'm going on vacation.
I went on vacation.
I don't have enough help.
I can't do it all.
We don't have the equipment.
I thought someone else was taking care of it.
AD NAUSEUM..................

It all comes down to one thing. She just doesn't have the skills and experience behind her to be an effective director. She needs to start as an assistant to a director.
We hire staff just like we elect mayors. Nobody cares about whether or not they are capable. And this mayor is proving that as well as the last one did. Neither one of them wants to handle the situation as it should be.
I am counting on a proper city manager to finally make it right.

Guest

If our parks and recs board chair wants to pick a fight, then why doesn't he do it where it will do some good? With the P&R director. Isn't it your job to advise and recommend? Where's the guts behind the man - or woman?
Come on Devon. Nothing wrong with arts programs. Children need arts and music. Study after study shows that children excel in both academics and self-worth if they are exposed to arts and music. It's a shame that many schools have lost these programs. They are as crucial to child development as exercise is. That said, I am not discounting that we also need physical activities for our children. Throughout the whole year - not just summer.
If parks and rec is not going to stand up for the work they are entrusted to do, then we need to get a new board.

Guest

The Board has been hounding the Director for over two years now for kids programs. There should be an arts program as well but not to the tune of $24,000 a year offering a very limited scope of art exposure to the kids. The P&R Board does just fine, the problem is the Director who doesn't listen to her advisors. Remeber these are the same people that came up with the Tree Master Plan but Lydia was not involved in that project.

Guest · Do you always take the advice that you are given?

An effective advisor is heard by those they advise. There must be a reason this board feels they are always spinning their wheels. I’d venture a guess that it’s a mutual lack of respect between the director and the board. Is the board facilitating the director when asked for advice, or is the board trying to strong arm the director? What is the hierarchy here? Advise is not a mandate, directive or anything else other than the extension of one’s opinion. There appears to be a dysfunction here that is unfortunate for the citizens.

??? · What?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Do you always take the advice that you are given?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Harlander

They are not a Charter mandated Board. They were in the last Charter but not in the current Charter therefore we must go to the ordinances that formed them and those were written in 1962 and 1974 and are still in effect. So it becomes very obvious that Council is going to have to update those ordinances to bring the P&R Board into compliance with the Charter by spelling out their duties and whom they advise. With the Ice Ranch project coming to fruition it would seem prudent to have the P&R Board ready and able to assist in the public space design.
Just my thoughts, though I could be wrong.

**caryn**

Guest

THANK YOU CARYN!

The Harlander

Actually the Ice Ranch people do want the City to be involved in the design and implementation of the Splash Park, putting green and batting cages. Those facilities will belong to the City as well as a community room and P&R Directors office that will be in the Ice Ranch building. The City will have to pay $91,000 for the splash park, that money to come from Open Space Funds. It's all part of the contract. Councilman Gardner has asked the P&R Board to come up with some ideas. The Roger thing was as much brainstorming as anything else.
Lost Images is a small sole proprietor home occupation that couldn't get government subsidies if it wanted tried.

Guest

So are you saying that what Cook said isn't true?

The Harlander

I'm not claiming to have heard Cooke say anything. I haven't talked to Dave. Are you saying what Adam said is not true? Are you saying that David told you that the City is not involved in the splash park, putting green, bat cages or community room? Because that's not what the Ice Ranch people stated at their presentation before Council. Indeed they were asking for input. Are you asking for the elemination of the P&R Board?
I'm feeling an ice cream moment coming on.

Guest

All I'm saying is don't ice the cake before the flavor has even been picked out. The ground hasn't even been broke . Give them a chance to decide what they want help with and not just go off thinking that they want input on everything.

Guest · ditto

Mister Bill · Ice Ranch - Public Input

To all-please be advised that the batting cages and putting green are Ice Ranch facilities and their ideas. The spray park was our idea as a facility to be used for our citizens. Yes, they have indicated they will be fully receptive to our suggestions and ideas regarding the facility, but let's not go overboard on this. As mentioned in other posts, we certainly didn't try to advise Target on how to use their space, so I would hope we try to limit our input to just "our facilities"- spray park, P & R office and community room. The last thing we want to happen is for citizens to bombard Ice Ranch with too many "ideas" and have them turn a deaf ear to us. Bill Bossert

**caryn**

Thank you Mr Bill !

Sometimes my fingers type faster then my brain can think and it comes across not the way I intended. That is the point I was trying to make.

Guest

Isn't that why we have a P&R Board? To advise when called upon so we don't get to many people going willy nilly. Heck the P&R Board barely even discussed the issue at the last meeting. I think they know what their doing. The've done a good job so far.

e-Mail? · Where did it go?

The topic of this thread references a "leaked e-mail". Where is it? That's not the subject of the first post either.

This leads me to believe that it was deleted by the admin.

Come on admin, give us some credit. We can take any claim of a leak with a grain of salt.

Was anyone around when it was first posted? What did it say?

Ed G Waters

It was so damn important, I don't think anybody remembered it two days past the original posting.

Devon Barclay

Admittedly, and with some apologies, these days I log in to the 'Stick only rarely. I was a bit surprised to see my name in the leading page of this thread, but I will answer.

The Arts folks wanted the City to spring tens of thousands for them to hold to hold 4 events next year, at which they would collect revenue that they would keep. As far as I'm concerned, we either pay for a program, or we donate some space at cost for programs (that we later recoup). If the City is going to get into the business of PAYING people to come here and make money, I'll play no part in it - and, in fact, I'll fight tooth and nail to stop it.

More seriously - when the Parks and Rec. board wants information about monthly expenditures, or future plans, one would think a member of the Board could make a phone call and get the data they're requesting, so they could formulate questions and provide advice at an upcoming meeting. Speaking personally, when I call the City of Lakewood, or Wheat Ridge, and ask for a budget, a Master Plan, or expenditures, I typically get that data within 24 hours.

In Edgewater, When I call the Director of the Department whose Advisory Board I Chair, I don't get a call back, and, some weeks later, I get an update during public meeting about projects that have already been completed. Typically, Council is upset about how these have been carried out. For more than a year, the Parks and Rec. board has asked for a quick, bullet-point apprisal of what the Director will be presenting prior to meetings - it has never shown up. The board has also requested an account of monthly expenditures. It's never been forthcoming.

Meanwhile, we've got benches no-one ever asked for that face trash cans, or worthless statues; major projects undertaken with just one bid; and NO Summer youth programs, even after two years of Board members outlining and developing such programs.

I want to make it exceedingly clear that I quite like our current Director, at least on a personal basis. However, as Citizen's Park becomes increasingly cut-up, and time goes on, it's becoming clear that we can't have an effective Parks and Rec. department without some accountability on the part of the Director, and some serious planning on what we want Parks and Recreation to look like in this town. We need a stronger Board, and a Master Plan. That's really all there is to it.

Pee and Are · Bye Bye Board!

Charter? What charter?

What does advise mean? I don't really know.

For more than a year, the Parks and Rec. board has asked for a quick, bullet-point apprisal of what the Director will be presenting prior to meetings - it has never shown up. The board has also requested an account of monthly expenditures. It's never been forthcoming.

I don't think advise means being able to demand of a city department head that she send you a "bullet-point apprisal" (whatever that is) prior to presenting to Council.

And as to accounting to this board of P&R's monthly expenditures, get over yourselves. She does not report to you. When will you understand this? You want to be somebody's boss, start a company. You want to direct city employees, run for mayor or interview for manager. But stop trying to run this city with your little committee.

The Truth

Until June 24th of this year the P&R Board was defined by Charter

Fading · Board is past its usefulness

Pee and Are expresses a pretty good point. (Perhaps a little on the over expressive side...)
What exactly is the role of the Parks and Rec committee?
In the past several years it seems that the directors have not been too keen on utilizing the board for much of anything. And, as the charter goes, she really isn't required to. The boards stated purpose is to develop a master plan, present it to the director and mayor for consideration and possible utilization. It does not say that they must follow the plan.
I don't know what has happened to the cooperation of the board and the director, but it has fallen by the wayside and become more of a power struggle than an aide to the community. (This is not just a phenomenom with P&R)
Perhaps it is time for the board to go away. We are getting a city manager soon and he or she would probably be working with the director on utilization of her department anyway. Maybe, since the board really doesn't have an official role due to the new charter, it should just be laid to rest until such a time as the manager decides it may be necessary.

Guest

I thought the charter said that existing boards still exist. That means the board is responsible for drafting a master plan for a modern park system. I don’t think that is what they have been working on. This potentially valuable board has been lead astray for several years now. One Chair after the other has attempted to further their goals using a flawed understanding of their job. The board could do so much for the city if they would just step back for a second, take a breath and learn their role. It is an important role. I wish some one would step up and do it. Before council decided to abolish them completely.

Guest

If the Board continues to exists as defined in the last Charter then the Board has two duties. Read the words folks:
11.8 Functions of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. The Parks and Recreation Advisory board shall prepare and submit to the Mayor a proposed master plan for the development and maintenance of a modern park system and shall cooperate with the Mayor in preparing the portions of the proposed City budget pertaining to parks and recreation
They are to assist in preparing the budget. How can they do that with out data? That was their job in the past and they tried to do it but without the data (reports from the Director).
This Board also assists the Director in implementing her programs. Indeed if it were not for their volunteer service the Easter Egg Hunt, Edgewater Days and the July 3rd Celebration would be a fiasco. Now I don't see anywhere in any description of the Board that they have to be cheap labor for the Director. In the past several years this Board has been right on track. The Tree Master Plan is a very good example. They worked very well with the City Arborist.
If they are going to write a Parks and Recreation Master Plan then they will need the full cooperation of the Director.
The problem isn't with the Board folks, it's the Director and her record stands on it's own. Remember the fence down at the Ball Park and her infamous "They'll get over it" statement? Now we have park benches facing trash cans and at what cost? It's time there was a little oversight on this Director.

Guest

are you saying the board's job is to oversee the director?

Guest

If the board isn't functional because the director and the mayor are not accepting their 'assistance', then what is the point of the board even convening?
Maybe the mayor and the director should run their programs without benefit of the volunteer board, and see if it works.
Does that include the tree commission? I hope not. But perhaps it is time for the board to go away. They are only setting themselves up for continued frustration by trying to fight this losing battle.

Guest

Nope. There job is to write the Master Plan and assist in preparing the proposed budget. Read the words:

11.8 Functions of Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. The Parks and Recreation Advisory board shall prepare and submit to the Mayor a proposed master plan for the development and maintenance of a modern park system and shall cooperate with the Mayor in preparing the portions of the proposed City budget pertaining to parks and recreation.

They are now preparing to work on the Master Plan. The Director has never cooperated in providing the information needed by the Board in performing their budgetary obligation. In the past, at the Mayors request, the Board has offered recommendations for programs but that was not their mandated duty any more than being the Easter Bunny at the Egg Hunt or picking up trash after the July 3rd Celebration.

The only oversight on the Director is the Mayor and in the future the Manager. The Director must always answer to Council regarding her use of apporpriated funds.

Ed G Waters

Hell, why do we need any board or commission. Get rid of em all, P&Z, P&R, Historical and that useless Board of Adjustments. What the hell business is it of the citizens what the government does anyway? These damn citizen committees poking their noses into everything is just plain un-American. Citizens Budget Review Committe, hell the damn electeds know how to spend the money, it doesn't that much brains. If you ain't a hired or elected, then mind your own damn business, I say. Charter Review and Compliance Commision, what the hell kind of animal is that?
I like the park benches set up just the way they are, easy to throw my empty Colt 45 bottle into on a lazy Sunday of drinkin at the park. And that fence was a stroke of genius, if that fence wasn't there to support myself on I couldn't get in nor out of the damn park.

Guest

Geeziz Colt, chill on the histrionics!
You are not really getting the thought process, me thinks.
If the P&R board just stops, then the mayor and the director are left to their own devises. They will need to get their own volunteers for whatever they need.
If and when council decides to put money into a master plan for the park, do you really think they are going to leave it to the P&R board to do the plan? I think that a professional park planner will be hired.
So, ok. Maybe I am saying that, due to the nature of our current director and mayor, i.e; they appear to find you useless....
maybe you should all just stop tearing your hearts out over something you can do nothing about anyway, and give it up.

Guest

John Moreno

That wasn't the reason for taking the P&R Board out of the Charter. I know, I was there. If the Council doesn't want a P&R Board they have every power to eliminate it. Otherwise, they either need to redefine it or keep it as is. It's really that simple. In the interim the Board has two duties to perform and would be remiss not to attempt to do them. All the rest, bunny costume and all, is extra curricular activity.

guest

I have a question when didn't we have a P&R person? I keep seeing where someone says now that we have a paid director. See if any of these people ring a bell--Roxy Johnson (Scottie was her assistant), Peggy Rudman(yes, at one time Peggy was paid), David McCabe, Bob Lemon, Jerry Scott, Kevin (sorry forget last name), and Lydia.

John Moreno

The previous guest has it exactly right going all the way back to the 1970s. The Board and Director worked hand in hand for the common good of the community and we had programs, lots of them. Tennis, softball, painting, sculpting, photography, video gaming, teen events and who can forget Tiny Tots. I was on the 1992 Charter Convention and the P&R Board was made a Charter mandated Board at the request of the Director. Why? To involve the community and put forth the programs they most wanted. The P&R Board served as the Directors advocate and vise a versa. We had great Edgewater Days back then. There was a spirit of cooperation and vitality that the current Board would like to revive. Unfortunately that was then and this is now. So what is the future of the P&R Board and OUR P&R Department? What is the future of OUR parks? I guess you will have to ask the Director, she has made it quite clear that they are HER parks and HER programs. Lots of luck getting an answer.

just a though

Maybe it not so much a paid thing. As the successful ones that we have had, lived in the city. They were more connected to the citizens, understood the citizens needs, and wants, and were connected by more then a pay check.
just a though

Guest

The most effective Director was Roxy Johnson and she was paid.

My 2 cents · P&R director

My 2 cents (and that's as much as I want spent on paying the current P&R director) is that she is overpaid and attempting to justify the overpayment by steamrolling the process, eliminating the board from the process, and being self-aggrandizing. For my money, either replace her, or eliminate the position, roll P&R under Public Works and let the P&R Board do what they're supposed to do by Charter - cooperate with the Mayor in preparing the portions of the proposed City budget pertaining to parks and recreation.

I can think of a lot of other places to use 45 thousand-a-year or so - like PROGRAMS!

2 Blind Mice

I think that putting P&R under public works is a mistake. They have enough to do without trying to add that to it.
I would like to see a more experienced director, or the current director under a more experienced manager. Currently we have the blind leading the blind. Hopefully, that will be resolved with the new city manager and he can make the call on whether or not we need a new director.
As to whether or not we need a board, that would depend on what kind of director we have. Personally, I think that if we have volunteers and the director knows how to utilize them (note, I did not say take orders from), a board is a great asset.

to: get a clue

rumor, rumor, rumor

Summer programs

Wrong person for the job?

Excuses

Do you always take the advice that you are given?

What?

ditto

Ice Ranch - Public Input

Where did it go?

Bye Bye Board!

Board is past its usefulness

P&R director