July 4th Under Attack

The Harlander · July 4th Under Attack

September 11, 2008
The issue of our annual July 4th celebration and our July 3rd fireworks show came under question before the City Council tonight. One citizen asked "Why?". I will tell you why.
John Adams wrote that the Fourth of July "...ought to be celebrated by pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations from one end of this continent to the other..."
The reason is patriotisim, the reason is liberty and freedom. Anything less is to question the Constitution Of The United States of America. It is a principal that was new then and is new now. It is something worth defending and celebrating. And at the risk of not being "Politicaly Correct", God bless America! God bless the Red Republicans, God bless the White independants and God bless the Blue Democrats. We all share something in common, we are Americans.
God bless those lives lost in our great pursuit. Let us forever remember December 7, 1942 and September 11, 2001 and every day that fellow Americans paid the ultimate price.

Guest

The issue is not about whether we enjoy and appreciate the celebration of freedom but rather can we afford to burden our police and fire department with an event that is growing out of control. It is a safety issue and both chiefs are concerned about their departments ability to keep our city safe with 20,000 people camped all over the city. Only about 25% of these fireworks watchers/partiers at the park- the rest are in the school yards, store parking lots, alleys, all along Sheridan and across Sheridan at Sloans. They're not asking to spoil our fun, they are asking us to consider the safety and well being of our citizens.

This is not about patriotism. This is about our safety. A real issue that has to be addressed.

The Harlander · Responsibility

And for a major national holiday celebration, at the civic level, who would you expect to be in control? Coordinating all of the various departments and out sourced support systems? Who would be in charge? A major civic event. A person who would be in charge of which vendors would have access to the public, parking issues, safety issues, sanitation and making sure all who would like to attend would be accommodated (read challenged). What person would make sure that all businesses would benefit with a PR program and not suffer property destruction like Targets had this last July? Who would be in charge of setting the tone so we would draw a conducive crowd?
Oh my, that would be the Parks and Recreation Director. But that is way more than we could expect from a soon to be married young bride. A young bride that has had more than enough time to honeymoon her position in the City. A young bride that has repeatedly scorned her willing and quit able mate. Namely the Edgewater Parks and Recreation Board. I wonder who she is going to convince to put on the bunny costume come next Spring let alone the upcoming Halloween celebration, which happens on a Friday night. Lost Images will cover her on that one but, for how many more years? She did not mind letting the P&R Board take a hit in the latest edition of the HUB regarding ADA accessibly to Citizen Park while she spent valuable resources putting in park benches facing trash cans. Our current and I might add temporary Manager (the Mayor) can’t quit decide to put a Parks & Recreation Master Plan into her budget?
Madam Mayor, meet Mrs. Thomas. She has needs. Are you willing, through your very capable P&R Director, to take her case to City Council? Hmmmmm……Maybe you need some advise. I know, I will ask Mr. McMayor. Five people sit out here waiting to be put to work, they have proven themselves with a Tree Master Plan that Council ignores after just after passing it (lip service). These are the same people that brought you the Health and Wellness Resolution and continue to serve fatty carrot cake at their meetings.
This whole thing is just nuts.
Or maybe it’s just me. I’m going back to my TV set to see how much more I can learn about pig lips.

Guest

You are so off base Harlander.

Guest

The question wasn’t why do we celebrate the 4th of July. The question was why is the City of Edgewater hosting tens of thousands of people in our city when the police and fire department are both telling us that we can no longer insure the citizen’s safety.

Here are the three basic answers.
1 - Community
2 - Patriotism
3 - Tradition

More questions.

If for community why not blow things up at Edgewater Days in stead of July 3rd?
If of Patriotism why not blow things up on July 4th?
If for Tradition how do we SAFELY repeat what we did last year, without the extreme burden that was posed on our local businesses?

The original question addressed the need to address the above questions BEFORE the city started expending time and money putting a $$$ amount on the cost of the ‘solution’.

Council needs to make a decision as to why and when we blow things up before they start costing out the expenses of how we blow things up - IMHO.

Guest

I don't know where anybody else was last July 3rd but I know what I saw, and it wasn't anything like an out of control mob. There were two incidents, a fight and someone vandalized a light at Targets. Both probably preventable with a greater police precence. What I did see was a group of officers all standing around at 24th and Ames BSing most of the evening. I never saw a cop directing traffic anywhere. Overall poor planning.

Guest

I was in the middle of the park having a great time. But when both Chiefs ‘advise’ the city I think we should listen. I only experienced my immediate area. I can’t speak to what happened elsewhere. Planning starts with council, doesn’t it?

Knee jerk

Is it true that the Police Chief wants to put in wire cages at JHS like they had at the DNC? I didn't see anything at the last fireworks show that would necessitate that. I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion.
As for the guest of 9:47 am. We don't "blow things up". Lots of fireworks shows happen on July 3rd. And what extreme hardship was placed on our business community? Extra sales? That's a hardship I'm sure they welcome. I some how think when you write "SAFEY" you actually mean NO RISK. That is impossible, with life comes risk. Even sleeping is risky. With proper planning we can reduce those risks and put on relatively safe event. Otherwise lets stop holding any events. There are open firepits at the Christmas event, children are running around during the Easter egg hunt, you can get food posioning at Edgewater Days and of course we "blow things up" on the Fourth of July. Give me a break.

Guest

I heard the chief of police wants to cancel Christmas.

Guest · What???

Extra sales? NOT! Let’s try vandalism, closed doors=no sales, expensive extra security guards being pulled inside for their own safety.

‘...the Police Chief wants to put in wire cages..’ just where are you getting your information? Chief never said any such thing. Although he did start the safety conversation.

As for Christmas, that really must go. Santa might fall off the fire truck.

Knee Jerk

I didn't state it as fact. Learn to read. ? generally means a question. Geez some of you people are downright rude. A civilized answer would have been nice.
I didn't see any extra security guards at the Edgewater Inn, Starbucks, the Sonic or any other business on July 3rd. (observation) What businesses shut down other than for the holiday as usual? (that's a question) I certainly didn't see any mobs of rampaging celebrants. (observation) Besides the one case of cut wires at Targets, what other vandalism occurred? (that is a question)

Keeping it real

Other than an attempt murder where someone was critically stabbed and another lost most of one finger, lets consider the businesses that feed our town. Target hated it because no one could shop there and thier lot lights were vandalized. Did you know our Target is ranked as the 20th most violent store in the nation. / nice record/ .

King Soopers called in 10 security Officers and still could not stop the tail gating in the lot / They hated it.

The place is loaded with gang members from rival groups. Most residents would not know that because they don't know what to look for and what colors these guys are wearing. It only takes one guy with one gun to tarnish this celebration forever.

It's not about what did happen it's what about couild happen. The Chiefs of police and fire voiced thier concerns but will ultimately do what ever the taxpayers want. All thier saying is when the big one hits and a couple people are murdered don't blame them.

Guest

So then our City is a hostage to the gang bangers and our police are powerless. Maybe we should suspend Christmas. At the very least we should shut down our schools and everyone home school. I am now truley frightened for my life.

Guest

Guest

Not much in life is free

I went to a Colorado Rockies game early in the season and asked a police officer what he estimated the crowd at, he replied about 15,000. I asked how many police officers were needed to provide the security and he said they had (75) for security and traffic control.

Compare that with a crowd in Edgewater of 30,000 or more and a whole police force of (15). The Chief said he can make it safe but needs to hire extra Officers from Other jurisdictions to provide extra security and traffic control. The going rate is about $50.00 per hour, per officer, with a 4 hour minimum per officer. Even if he brought in an extra ten officers that's a big chunk of cash. If we want the event let's be prepared to pay for it.

Guest · Let's work on some solutions

What about the idea of changing the date? If it were on the 4th and we didn’t advertise it there would probably be less people. If it were during Edgewater Days there would be even less people.

Caryn

***block off streets to only people with permits* There is a town in the southern metro area that does it ..
( I think it like highlands ranch or about there)
have residents block the streets with their vehicles .

***send out the permits in the water bills and if they need more for visitors then they have to go get them

***promote it as "an energy efficient event" , or "a Healthy event"
if you want to see it from the park you have to
walk , wheel or bike in.

***enforce the park rules

***other cities rope off the pathways through the park for emergency sidewalks why can't we.

***do not invite people to bring their food down to the park that only promotes the problems that were had at the stores with tailgaters.
Some people see that as in invitation to PARTY!!
This year they were encouraged to do just that in the advertisements.

***don't advertise it .

Farmer Scott · Nice box

That crazy broad has finally done lost her mind

!!!

Opps, wrong forum.

My bad,
The FARMER

Caryn

*** how about a change of venues to launch them from I am thinking about .....farmer Scott's backyard might be a good place to fire them from

No ,how about setting them off from Lumberg or Jeffersons field .

Facts?

How did our crowd of 12,000 grow to 30,000? I'm a bit disturbed with the isolationist tone occurring here. I thought we wanted to showcase Edgewater. If people don't see us they won't want to move their businesss and homes here or come here to spend their money. The fact is Edgewater cannot support itself. The alternative I fear is a fast slip in to becomming a ghetto.

Guest · Focus

If the Fire and Police Chiefs say the crowds are unmanageable (whatever their number) on the 3rd, does anyone really see Edgewater or just throngs of people?
Fireworks and a street fair that is smaller, not on the 3rd and actually "showcases" Edgewater may be more effective in achieving that goal.

Open eyes · Crowd control

Those crowds are not going to go away on the third if we cease our small fireworks show. The crowds at the Edgewater Market place are overspill from Sloans. Sloans is packed to the gills on the third, you don't seriously think they are there for our little sparkler display. The spectacular shows from Denver reflecting in the lake are the big draw, Edgewaters show is just extra icing on the cake.
This not the only time Edgewater gets dumped on by it's neighbor to the East. The East end of town is a nightmare during the Dragon Boat Festival. Moving that event to the East side of Sloans Lake was not much of an improvement for us. The Market Place is a mini parking lot on Bronco Sundays. Crowds are always problematic. You just have to plan for them and face the inconveinence as well as the benifits.

Focus · re: Crowd Control

Tubbs

Edgewater Days was canned this year because of the previous years low turnout. What makes you think they are going to bring it back? To many people to few people, yada, yada, yada. The truth is we can't afford to do much celebrating in Edgewater not to mention it puts off a lot of those EPD detectives when they have to walk a beat in uniform. They prefer to look Miami Vice cool with belt badges.

Crocket

The spectacular shows from Denver reflecting in the lake are the big draw, Edgewaters show is just extra icing on the cake

Its "Our little show" that brings those people to the lake to see "Our Little show " reflecting in the lake. Denver doesn't shoot of any close enough to reflect in the lake.

Edgewater on a different date so we don't have to forfeit our little sparkler display entirely.[i]

"our littlle sparkler display" is one if the top 5 in the Metro area, If not in the state. Why do you think other cities pay our fire fighters to shoot theirs off.

I will give you the Miami Vice one

[/i]

Open Eyes

The big displays at Invesco and Coors Field are twice as big reflecting in Sloans Lake. Been there done that. The only way Edgewaters display reflects in the lake is from the Eastern shore.

Nielson

Miami Vice????? What was that like 20+ years ago? More evidence that some of the posters on this site are are way out of touch.

Guest

Don't be fooled by some loud mouth jerks. They do come to see our show. So many have come that the crowd is far larger than the previous posters 12,000 remark. In addition have you seen the little kids running back and forth across Sheridan with no supervision and cars are doing 50-60 mph. Sooner or later one is going to get run over. I know you think the answer is to block off Sheridan but you can't because it's a State Highway so then what ? The answer is simple but not free Take the Chiefs advise and hire more cops for the night.

FIREWORKS FOREVER!!!!!

This is ONE of the FEW draws to this town that pulls many people in from a variety of areas. It is a Great display- with great turnout and great press to boot. Why kill what IS GOOD and WORKS for this

y little city. HIGHLIGHT IT! get the business community to promote it- pass out offers and bring people back! finally last year we had a few vendors- GET MORE! Bring in a small bouncy gym park for the kids for a small fee or hell- for the price of 30 minutes of one movie in the park! C'Mon you crazy know-it all freaks! Get with the program! If the police can't handle it- well that's another issue to address Crockett!
FIREWORKS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest

The chiefs did not recommend extra cops. They recommended cancelling it.
The city could not afford last years fireworks. How are they going to afford this years AND the extra cops it needs, plus barriers, plus signage......
There is no evidence to suggest that the fireworks does anything to help the city businesses. In fact, the opposite appears to be true.
What happens when the Ice Arena comes in. Does their lot get trashed as well?
There is the suggestion to move it to the fourth and not advertise.
Personally, I think that moving it to Edgewater Days as part of the revitalization of that event is a better idea. There are plenty of fireworks displays around us on the third and fourth. But not in August.

Guest · It been great, but now it's time to move on

Our celebration is a disaster waiting to happen. We have been told that by all of our safety officers. We can walk away proud of a job well done, or we can drive the bus off a cliff. Odds are we’re gonna hop on the bus only to wander around after the crash wondering what happened.

I don’t think the city has the resources to do what the Chiefs have suggested. On a list of priorities I’d put things like a fire engine, a police station, a good salary for a city manager, asphalt for Mike, master plans for parks and the city, funding the tree plan, and several others above fireworks. These things are better long term investments for the city. Other than a little fame, I too question the overall benefit the city receives from the firework display. We can’t afford everything we want, which means there are some hard choices to be made.

I know...all work and no play..... But we had a good run, we really did a fantastic job. Can’t we just leave it at that, and move on? It has already been tainted, I’d hate to see it get soured. Like any good relationship, you got to know when to walk away and when to work harder. I think we need to walk away from this one before something goes very, very wrong.

Cry baby

Oh it is so much better to be safe. Besides the boom-booms hurt my ears. Waaaa

Guest

Thanks for that input Crybaby. It's your posts that really make discussion worthwhile.

Guest

The Police and Fire Chief's are professional at what they do. They made recommendations to insure the public safety. If we can't afford to do it right then why do it. If we wan't it then do it right, then make it safe, and continue the celebration for years to come. Don't ruin the event by trying to be cheap and people get killed.
Edgewater is famous for being low rent and trying to get everything for free from other cities, let's change that perception.

Guessed · scghrew 3rd Julie!

ioGuess the PD and the city leaders are jsut f'g mornons!

Guest · Excuse me your (_)(_) is showing

Guess it wont be hard to figure out which one of the Charter Commission that is?

July 4th Under Attack

Responsibility

What???

Let's work on some solutions

Nice box

Focus

Crowd control

re: Crowd Control

It been great, but now it's time to move on

scghrew 3rd Julie!

Excuse me your (_)(_) is showing