Raise hand

Guest

Wouldn't the Heritage Center be a fitting place to make more history. A few red lights should get the message across! At least the building would finally get some use.

Guest

We already have a couple of escort services operating out of Edgewater. (search google) . I'm all for the bars and nightclubs it's what lodo is all about and it works good down there.

Guest · Raise hand

OK admit it how many of you googled it ?

Guest

Guest

The place sure, but not the building. I say scrape what's old and build it a new, for the purpose it is intened to serve - a library!

History? · Not at 25th and Chase

If you believe that, then maybe you should say it publicly. There are maybe two people in this town who have the guts to actually say it. If the people who really believed that the Heritage center should be scraped would speak up publicly, all the open space dollars, CDBG dollars and Historical fund dollars would not have been spent to slap on band-aids and appease the people who think that place is historically significant.

Guest

What is the difference between saying it to those charged with representing us in chambers, at the grocery store, on the phone or in an email? It is there job to listen to us regardless of where they hear our words. A new building on an old site is not a new idea. Council members have heard the words. Let’s see what they do with them.

Guest

You all know how it works. If a bunch of people get up at council and make a statement, it will travel a lot further than Pauline getting up and talking about her elusive 'they'.
People like the Foxes and the McNultys are counting on the opposition not wanting to say anything publicly.
They love, love, love the fear factor . It's powerful.

Guest

Is the Heritage Center stoppable? I thought the final deal was signed, sealed and delivered a few months ago. Maybe if it is (stoppable) we can implode the building and save the roses at least.

Then build a new building in the center. One that does not leak. One that will house books without fear of mold and dust damage from cracking walls. One that will have a purpose other than a million dollar$$$ empty museum. Maybe have a tea room above the library

instead of a room of useless glass.

Guest

I think we should recycle the bricks and build a path in the park.

Guest

yes, recycle the bricks and build an outdoor fireplace at the back of the library for winter tea drinkers who love to be outside, and build a path to it from the main building, then whatever is left- should be plenty- build a yellow brick road in the park

Farmer Scott · How did we get here?

Moderator One HELP HELP. I believe this post has run amuck.

BUT, since I'm here. I would like to know everything that GUEST (GEEES) at 8:43 want's to know? Is scraping a possibilitiy?
It is my considered opinion that this has been a COMPLETE mismanagement from the word go. There are certain things in this city that have no fuse left. This fuse has had more than its fare share of burning time. At this time (I don't care)........BUT, its one or the other and its done. (I THINK WE ARE OVER IT)
I can only speak for myself when I say why? I truely don't get it. This is not some beautiful Denver Square, Tudor or Victorian. I'm thinking this was where they sent all those to learn, on the big project. QUALITY, YES... CRAFTSMANSHIP, not so much.
These are MY thoughts and I apologise if this building holds some greater meaning for you/reader.
Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you polish a penny, at the end of the day you still only have a penny.
I truely don't KNOW???.....DO IT OR DON"T DO IT but , the anger I hear about this is justified and its impression is everlasting.
It definely looks better on an afghan and maybe thats where it lives on.

History? · Going down.

From your mouth to gods ears.
The Heritage Center is a pet hobby for some people who really don't care about anything other than going down in history as someone who made it happen.
I say 'Be careful what you wish for'. They may go down in history as the ones who promoted the biggest waste of money, time and resources that the city has ever seen.
'Going down in History' may have a completely new meaning where the Heritage Center is concerned.

Ancient History

I wonder, in two thousand years, what the archeologist will make of the Heritage Center when they dig it up? Will they see it as a temple to the Gods, a new Library of Alexandria or a continueing boondoggle?

Guest

ASHES

Guest

I’m kinda burned out on this whole topic. Too many mayors, too many years, too many visions, too much of everything. Who really cares anymore? It seems to be a political sporting event more than a community endeavor. But here is my two cents anyway.

If anyone has an idea of what to do 25th and Chase then put together a presentation to show people what you have in mind. The current champions of this building have spent a lot of time, effort and emotion (and yes, money) to let everyone know exactly what they want to see. That’s more than anyone else has done.

If you can show me an alternative and present a means of pulling it off then maybe I could consider doing what needs to be done to stop the current proposal. But I can not justify stopping a project that has consumed as much of our staff and money as this one has with nothing more than an “I don’t like it.”

I’ll start. How about a scaled down version this:

http://www.timberlinevideo.com/pages/GCLDgranby.html

An open building with lots of natural light designed for community and social interaction.

So what do you think? Love it? Hate it? Not doable? Wrong for Edgewater? What????

Guest

I like it! How soon can we get started.

Guest

It's beautiful! Do you think something like that would fit on the footprint?
I do understand that a LOT of time and money has gone into this building. What I don't understand is why. AND why are we continuing to throw more money and time into a project that has so little support other than, "Wow man. A lot of time and money has been put into this. Let's just getter done."
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
It's just not realistic or using good common sense. It's like trying to revive something that has long been dead. You pay for the doctors, the medicine, the medical equipment, but the patient is still-and always will be - dead. Let it go.
I think we should just scrape it and sell the land to the highest bidder.
We lost the grant this time around, and I would seriously doubt that we really have any chance at another one the next grant cycle. I think the Historical Society realizes that this was all a bad mistake. When are our city officials going to admit it and stop wasting time and money?
I do like the Granby library idea. But again, it takes lots of money to build. Do you think the JeffCo libraries would put it up?

Guest

Does it fit? Part of that depends on where the priorities are. Since people have memorial roses planted all around the existing building removing the roses to better use the land would have to be done in a very respectful manner. Maybe something like decorative bronze tiles engraved with a rose and the inscriptions of the current memorials could become part of the exterior wall pattern.

Funding is always a question but if you have a strong plan you can usually find funding. JeffCo probably has something. A private donor earmarked some money for Edgewater’s library. If the community was really behind the project fund raisers to help match grants would give everyone a true sense of ownership in the project.

I’m no architect, but what I see is a large open building that wouldn’t require a lot of fancy construction expenses. Since it doesn’t have to be some unique aesthetic statement we could do a cut and paste versions of similar buildings. If we keep it simple and keep it focused and I don’t think it would cost much more than the long term cost of the existing building. In return it could enhance the whole area and become a true investment for everyone.

l keegan

Fantastic idea. A building with much open window area like that would fit well and I would think the majority of our city would be ecstatic to see the old Heritage torn down. By all means save the memorial roses-- that could be a fine community project. If guest of 2:18 has a way to stop this waste of money, lets rally together and get a proper library/community meeting center in the works. The current building will never be sound and will continue for decades to be nothing more than a money pit. I bet Dave Cooke never imagined his comments about a brothel would lead to the beginnings of a community rally!

It may even be possible to do 2 stories? since the space is rather small. Once again, I think with the so much new retail coming in, getting support from community and financial resources will not be too difficult. Certainly not like it would have been a few years ago.
Great idea.

Guest

Step one: Declare that the current project no longer satisfies the needs/desires of the community.

Step two: Negotiate an agreement with Jefferson County that states we will continue to utilize the space for community use, but with a new structure.

Step three: Create a master plan for the property with a diligently researched plan of implementation.

Step four: After a toughly thought out plan is approved issue RFPs and address any unforeseen conditions - of which, at this point, there should be none.

Step five: Sign the dotted lines and get it done.

The most important step, one that involves all of the above, is public education and participation. This has to be about the people and not the people’s politicians. If this is to remain a political token then I say walk away now, pay to complete what we have stated and ‘get over it’!

I would like to think the whole process could be done and the library open for business in 24 months.

Caryn

how about a land swap with the guys that own the Masonic Temple. let some one else deal with trying to figure out what to put in its place.

* move the garden to the east end of the property

*you could put a libary in the top floor with a deck for reading.

* the bottom has a huge room , with a huge kitchen and an apartment.Unless its been changed I remember a stage in the basement room . ( the apartment could be the Edgewater "store" a place to purchase t-shirts ,mugs and other trinkets of remembrance)

* it would be easier to make accessible than the "white elephant"

* you could make the grounds another park ,a place in the city 'HEART" of the city where you can go and read or just relax in the little park.

* it has parking( then the church would have its parking back.*no Library on Sunday)

*install solar on the roof for effenicy

*you could put historic displays through out the building and make the garage the "museum"

* it would make the business area move up 25th, give us another park , libary, community room and a place to put all the old stuff.

* last but not least , its a more historical building and it would be sad to see it gone.

That's all for now folks

Guest

I nominate Laura and guest of 2:18 (you know who you are:) to start the rally!!!
You have to be able to stand tough to the forces of the Foxes and the McNultys. Are you ready?

I do love the idea of starting new with a scraping and then a dedicated library. I also really love the idea of the memorial plaques with roses engraved. They use a lot less water and may even look better than what is there now. Poor roses.

OK. So who on this forum is really into this thought process?
We all know that when a community rallies, miracles can happen.

Guest

Caryn,
Are you describing the Heritage Center or the Masonic? The HC is one big shell. No innards to speak of. I would guess that all it would take to bring it down was a Heavy duty pickup with a chain attached to the middle rafter. One tug and it all comes tumbling down.
I doubt Ian would even want to risk his men in a controlled burn. Too dangerous with that structure.

Caryn

Guest @ 10:09
My description is of what I could see at the Masonic Building.
I think the HC has far to much "bad", "negative" tied to it. Just get rid of it and let someone else have a dream on that corner and rebirth it.
If you combine the PD and FD on the existing property at 25th and Gray, then you can be sure of continuing the continuity of 25th ave.

guest

the masonic area would be great for city offices--middle of town--big enough area for current offices, police and llibrary.
then rebuild fire department in old city hall on 25th and gray and current stationarea. (Boy the city manager is going to have a lot of things to think about.)

Guest

The city doesn't own the Masonic building. When that very idea was looked into, and after inspection and analysis, it was determined that the Masonic building would not work out . That was why the city never pursued it further. Then Site7 purchased it with their own plans. I don't see any beginning to those plans. I don't know what Site7 is thinking, but they have approached the city with a couple of different 'proposals'. It seemed that they were not proposals that the city wanted to pursue either.
I think that we need to work with what we have.
I also think that we really need to get the police out of a rented building that is probably pretty darn close to being in the same condition as the Heritage Center, and the fire department also needs to be looked at for renovation or a move.
Lots to do with very little money to do it with.

Caryn

how about a trade for the city office now and the Masonic. But not one like we have for the current PD , don't want to pay rent for the city offices . The City Offices would have to be constructed first along with the PD and FD at the 25th and Gray site.
Then just sell off the HC. Use that money to rehab the Masonic.
I am not sure but don't we get a bigger chunk of money the more parks we have?

Toast

Guest

Dear Toast,
You can bet that more than one person on council is reading this. I would wager that the mayor and most of the city staff also read this, including police and fire depts. (SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHH -it's a secret)

I like your idea of a steering committee. Will you please be a little more explicit about what you think a steering committee should do?
Thanks.
Muffin

Guest 11

Good Idea. That place has done nothing. Maybe we could sell the land and give our employees the pay increase they deserve.

Toast

Dear Muffin,

In my perfect world....

Too many cooks spoil the soup. The steering committee (SC) would first work on the broad stroke design intents for the site. i.e.: basic architecture of the building, how much land to cover, what to do with the roses and memorials, basic space planning and incorporating our historic artifacts as wall art in the library.

Once the basic physical elements of the project can be presented on paper then the concept is rolled out to the public and council. Either the basic idea is embraced or rejected. Too many people throwing in their two-cents too early is my idea of group-decision-making gone bad. Since no one will ever get everything they had hoped for I would discourage the SC from even suggesting that ‘public participation’ means “If you say it, I must do it”. Every one would be given an opportunity to be heard. Some ideas will make it to the master plan, others wouldn’t - that needs to be understood. It would be the responsibility of the SC to weigh the pros and cons of each idea and do what they feel is best, not most popular.

Funding challenges and construction decisions must be made at the same time. Once a build out is agreed upon then professionals in architecture, construction, libraries and finance will need to be brought in to consult. Design intent, proposed use and time lines will have already been established by the SC and the job of the pros will be to program a plan of completion. This is a time to plan for the work to be done, not to contract for the work to be done.

As we learn what parts or our grand idea work and which ones don’t the SC will have to adjust the plans. The previous input received from the community will help guide the SC toward resolutions between any feasibility issues. Once this has been done, and not until it is complete, the new plan, with a means of implementation, would again be rolled out to the council and the public for input. Again to be either embraced or rejected. Please note the lack of middle ground here. The further along the process gets the more black and white the decision to proceed will get.

If ‘approved’ then the SC would draft a detailed Master Plan for the site. This document would specifically articulate exactly how the project will turn out. No changing the space planning, no change of use, no new colors for the carpet, no new nothing.... The letter of the master plan will be what guides the current officials in office as well and any new ones that might be seated. The master plan will guide the decisions of the project manages that will be charged with making dirt turn into a library. An approved master plan is the ultimate goal of the Steering Committee.

It would be up to council to approve the master plan and take care of the necessary budget procedures, granting applications and service contracts to make it happen. At all points the public would be welcomed to follow the process but would need to understand that will only be limited and structured opportunity for ‘brainstorming’ or input. Remember at each roll out, the ideas of the SC can be rejected and the project can be stopped, but if the plan is constantly being tweaked it will turn out exactly like the current project has. Piece meal does not work. The City by means of the Steering Committee must lead the project. It can’t have 5,442 leaders. Leaders are charged with making the hard and sometimes un-popular decisions - it comes with the territory. But in the end it will still be a vote of our elected officials to move forward or not.

Just my opinon....

l keegan

Toast, I have a few questions that I feel you probably have the answers to. ---- What would be the very first step to take? I know you said: "Declare that the current project no longer satisfies the needs/desires of the community." Does this have to be done by council? Can one citizen or several citizens ask council to put it on as an agenda item for discussion? Does it take their official vote to stop the current Heritage Center plan?

Another question about steering committees. Do they have to be formed by council or approved by council first? And wouldn't we have to know council is willing to go with new plans before we formed a SC?

I understand the other steps following that, but am unclear what initially has to happen to start (stop) any changes on that property.

It seems clear that there is a large faction of our community that would be in support of starting over with that property. If it can be done, let's do it.

I believe I am one of many who would make this a priority if we felt, since the grant was denied, that there would be the possibility to start anew with a viable plan. Look at how powerful our voices can be. So many great changes are occurring right now. We can make things happen if we make ourselves heard. Laura Keegan

Guest

Toast, along the same questioning as Laura....
How do we get to the point that the city decides to let the Heritage Center project go? How do we get from here to there?
I like your process with 'the bad word'. It turns it into a more palatable word in the end, I think.
This is great conversation. I hope it can be productive in the end.

Toast

...you said: "Declare that the current project no longer satisfies the needs/desires of the community." Does this have to be done by council?

This is either really, really good, or really, really bad, but council can just decide. Scary as it sounds they do have the authority and the power; in part, because there has never been a solidified or formal plan approved for 25th and Chase. One grant, one phase, one idea at a time this project has gotten to where it is now.

Can one citizen or several citizens ask council to put it on as an agenda item for discussion?

Sure. As with any other council deliberation, citizens are welcome to lobby their representatives. Who they listen to, who they respect, who they are intimated by all play into their decision. That is why speaking up at a council meeting matters. Technically you don’t need to be on the agenda to speak your mind. If a grassroots effort to lobby council is the plan, why ask for time? Just get about a billion people to stand up at the same meeting during Public Comment and you will probably be noticed. The problem with Public Comment is that council doesn’t have to take any action on what you say.

A different approach might be to prepare your idea in a format that could be delivered in their packet and then during public comment request time on a future agenda. At this point you could provide background and justification as to why they might want to consider taking action on your proposal. A good time to present a request for workshop time would be during council’s upcoming agenda item to discuss why we were not awarded our last grant request.

...about steering committees. Do they have to be formed by council...

If they were not formed by council they would not have the power or the authority to do what I feel needs to be done. Citizen’s can not act as agents of a city. The city would need to do the project - no one else can. By the simple fact that a SC was formed council would be stating that they are willing to study the options. If council doesn’t what to consider other ideas then we should all stop wasting our time thinking about it.

How do we get from here to there?

Ask. They might shut it down immediately, but if you don’t ask you will never have a shot at it. I think the key is whether or not people are willing to step up and do the work. If you ask for it to be done and then sit back and wait for someone else to deliver it to you it will fail. You need to prove to council that this isn’t just some grand idea with no means to succeed. For example: I can sit here and spout my opinions all day, but actually making the time to serve on the SC would be a whole different decision. The question that needs to be answered is: Does anyone really care enough to do the work? Connie Fox did.

Guest

"Does anyone really care enough to do the work? Connie Fox did. "
Good point. And how many people do you suppose it took to get the place purchased and the project started?
I do know that it was purchased when her husband was mayor. That certainly gave her a lot of pull.
After that, getting people to fall all over the project was a piece of cake.
Now that people are realizing that it really wasn't such a great idea, who do we need to champion our cause? I would guess a lot of people standing up to council and asking them to workshop the idea of scraping this Heritage Center idea and working on something that will benefit the whole community. A library is probably the best choice here - just not in that current building.
I like the way that Toast laid it out. I suspect he or she would not mind her words being used to move this forward.
I think the idea of a steering committee is good. It didn't go over very well for 20th and Depew, but that was - ironically- because the people who were heading it had their own agenda and there was a LOT of backdoor stuff going on that some of the committee members didn't even know about. I would hope that this time it would be set up a lot differently. David Cooke is the one who brought that down, and he may be willing to help build an appropriate committee for this project. I like Toasts plan for a committee. Why not use it as an outline?

Toast

"I suspect he or she would not mind her words being used..."

LMAO - you’re too funny...not too PC, but funny...

You may have noticed, that unlike some posters, I have never displayed a copyright noticed on my posts. My words were given freely. To plagiarize a previous poster:

Farmer Scott · Planing and sharing.

This is all fantastic stuff. PLEASE USE CAUTION!!!

I haven't read anything that I would object too? What, I would like is that this (thinking) continue on a all new post. This is the out of the box thinking, that this town(city) actually needs. I would sugguest that everyone (all) Laura, Guest (s) (GEEEES) and toast take one week (you can you do it) and sit back and ponder.

We have the dedication, heart and talent; the act of implementation...will come.

What I hear is great but, as a skeptic, leads me to the reasoning that has got US here.........horse before the cart.
Good intentions NO direction.
I'm kinda only putting this on here as a reminder. My facts could be a little skewed.
20th and Depew has been vacant for 5 years. The Heritage Center was originally aquired in 2001. Hoping that's right; cause the Farmer doesn't like for his facts to be wrong.

Guest

Good Morning Farmer Scott, I think you missed the point. This whole exercise is about getting the directions written down a piece of paper. To approve a plan before we do anything.

And you are right, the old Kings sat for about 5 years and after 7 years look what we have at the Abby. “the act of implementation...will come.” - NOT! Implementation is our weakest link........because we never have any direction.....

Meen Street · I smell surplus

Why not just declare the property as surplus property and put it on the market? Get rid of the whole mess.

We can put the library in some of the vacant space at City Hall if people even want a library. Jeffco sure hasn't committed that they want a library here. Why should we pay for their buildings when they want to pay one dollar a year with only a three-year commitment to pay the one dollar?

I say skip the committee, tell people to get a hobby, then Sell it off. Just and idea.

Guest

I'm thinking that someone needs to step up, using your own name, (I don't believe for a second that LKeegan is really your name :) and ask people to call or e-mail you personally. You can then start working on a citizens committee to put your thoughts together, possibly get a petition to stop the current project - maybe even let people know what you plan to suggest, and then bring it to council. Get as many people behind it as you can to show up at council. (They're scared of really big crowds)

If you can get Toast behind you, he or she or her may be willing to assist you in the process. He (or she) seems to have a pretty good handle on a good way to proceed.
I have heard it before that there are ways to negotiate with the previous grantors to make this all go away. It seems that the scare tactics of Edgewater getting on the wrong side of grantors has been the strongest reason put forth to go through with this. I think if you ask the grantors, they would tell you that is pretty lame. Even they don't want to throw more money into a bad project.

Caryn

I use my REAL name I didn't see yours.
Yes LKeegan is her real name she lives down the street from me and a very nice lady at that.
I think we should just get rid of the whole this lock stock and rain barrel. It has "bad" "negative" thoughts and feelings attached to it.
I don't want to have to be reminded of the problems, hurt feeling and money that it has caused "OUR" city.

l keegan

This is certainly something that needs to be well thought out. We need to put real effort into a plan. I would suggest, as Farmer Scott has said, we do not jump in before careful planning. But if there is a chance, we need to let the citizens know we still may have options.

The first step though has to be getting some council and citizen support. I think we need to get together, either by email, phone or meet in person. Reaching a lot of peole is never an easy endeavor in this town without a lot of planning.

Toast, you are very aware of all the processes, would you be willing to be a part of this? Maybe lead the effort? I do not have the know-how but have the desire to learn and see if we can convert this project as it is, into something sound and an asset to the community at large.

People have worked very hard, I know that, on this project but there comes a point where it is obvious it is not going to happen under current conditions. The building is just not worth the money as it stands. The money necessary for upkeep and constant repairs on such an old building, if it ever is completed, would be astronomical. It should come down and a new safe, well designed building should take its place. Maybe even some of those who have spent much time and effort would want to consider backing this. They must be horribly frustrated at the constant decay they are battling.

I think it is worth while. But I am just one person. How many others will be willing to help? Let's keep talking here for the time being. In the meantime, maybe more will offer their support with their names so we can start to organize this.

And maybe it is possible to sell it lock, stock and barrel. Repay the funds and still come out ahead? The the money could be used to rebuild our police department and fire department at 25th and Gray in our old rec building. The library is so small, they could, as one other poster suggested go into the city offices. So many ideas could work but the time to move on is really at hand. We need to get some answers and support first.

Caryn, thanks for verifying that I am me!!

Laura Keegan

Sissygirl

Caryn,
Of course I know Laura is really Laura. I was just havin fun. You know how to have fun, don't you Saint? I did add a smiley to that comment.
I won't use my real name. I'm the biggest sissy there is. That Connie lady really scares me. If she thought I was talking bad about her project....well, I shudder to think about it.

How about you just call me Sissygirl?
I wish I had the guts to stand up to the people who are pushing this museum idea. I may be a sissy, but I'm not stupid. It just doesn't make sense.
I am glad there are people in this world who will stand up. I will be hiding behind the bushes watching and rooting you all on!

Caryn

oppps my bad I didn't see it. 30 lashes with a wet noodle..* I like Sissygirl better then another guest.
Sissygirl, you know me, and I know LKeegen.

, I know you have a phone.

Sissygirl

Caryn, I'll let you slide this time. Being a sissy, I really couldn't do the wet noodle thing anyway.

Yes, I know who you are. And I know that you aren't afraid to speak your mind when you really believe in something.
(Look for me at your wheels in the park. I'll be there)
But that Connie lady - like I said...bbbrrrrrr. Scarey.
I can be a follower, but not a leader. I know. But we can't all be leaders, or we wouldn't have anyone to do the grunt work, right?

I'll be watching, and when the time is right, I will do my time.

lkeegan

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I think we should try to talk about this before speaking before council. What say you???? Anyone who wants to speak out tonight or write to council about this , I would never say do not do it. It is your right and duty to do so when you choose to do so. But it may have more steam if we can organize and have a group of us together. Laura K

feel free to email me, too lksells@aol.com
If you do email me, type in TS in the subject line

Toast

Given council's agenda for the night, I agree with Laura. It might be best if no one brings this up just yet. If on the other hand council brings it up first, by all means show some enthusiasm and let them know this is not a sleepy topic.

lkeegan · council meeting 8/28

Council has the Heritage Center Grant on the workshop agenda this Thursday 8/28.

7. Discussion on Re-Submitting Heritage Center Grant Application to the State Historic Fund – Due Date October 1, 2008 – Cynthia D. Nieb, Director of Public Outreach

This is a good time for anyone interested in the Heritage Center project to come to Council and see what the Council will have to say. It is also your opportunity to hear citizens opinion and if you like, to express your opinion-- or be present and nod yea or nay if you hear opinions similiar to your own or your neighbors'. This is a project that needs our input-- don't be silent. Since the Grant has been denied, now is a good time, if you have opinions or concerns, to voice them. If you cannot come, call or email your Council. Their contact information is:

David Cooke 303-445-1730 dcooke@edgewaterco.com
William Bossert 303-237-4946 wbossert@edgewaterco.com
Kent Johnson 303-238-3478 kjohnson@edgewaterco.com
Joan Martin 303-233-1425 jmartin@edgewaterco.com
Andrew Bertapelle 303-847-7050 abertapelle@edgewaterco.com
Adam Gardner 303-257-9011 agardner@edgewaterco.com
Jamie McElhany 303-205-9336 jmcelhany@edgewaterco.com

no now · know now, or no

Thursday is the time to bring this up. No question.

We need to ask Historical Fund person if this is a realistic project to ever expect funding in excess of $500,000. We cannot trust the city's grant writer, he screwed this up already. Only an idiot beleives this will only take three or four hundred thousand to finish this mess. I hear estimates of 3/4 million plus. Let's ask about our chances of getting $750,000 and she what she says.

This is our chance to hear real info instead of this filtered BS we get from the grant writer and the mayor. Let's ask tough questions now!

How many cities got more than a $250,000 grant last cycle? The web-site shows only one city - Westminster. What are our real chances of ever seeing enough money to finish this? Where did we rank on the last grant cycel against other towns? Top half, bottom half? Is there any chance we will go from the bottom or middle to the very top? Because only number one gets real money. Is this realistic at all?

Of course, she won't give a clear answer - heck remember the BS from the library people when they were asked to commit. But we can all still learn something about whether this makes sense to keep holding this project knowing that the only source of money is the State Historical Fund.

People need to ask hard questions and let her know that the community is not behind this project at all. send a message!

Send a message to Council, when it becomes clear that the State historical fund won't pay for this folly, those gutless wonders on Coucnil will be tempted spend all of our open space money on this dump if we let them.

No more sitting back, now is the time to raise hell. The city was duped into buying this, we need to get honest about staying with it or make clear plans to get out.

Not Me · Open space funds for what?

I cannot believe that city council would actually spend more open space funds on the Heritage Center when we have so many other needs for the children in our community. There is the current issue of a master plan for the park so that we might finally make it more useable - think playground equipment, accessible paths, after school programs, summer programs, park maintenance, equipment... What did we spend in open space funds to purchase it - $240,000???? Imagine what that could have done for our park and our kids.
What good does a museum do for us? And that building is about as historically significant as my elbow.
If we want a library, then we should have spent the money on a library and not trying to preserve a falling down fire trap that means nothing to anybody but some woman who used her husbands office to get it.
Frankly, I am concerned that the Historical Society takes their funds so lightly that they would approve funding the renovations in the first place. Did anyone really look at that place? At least somebody came to their senses and denied any further funding.
We, the people of this city need to stand up and tell our city leaders that we are sick and tired of their irresponsible spending.
Did anyone bother to ask the people of this city if they wanted their open space funds used to purchase this building?
Did anyone bother to tell us that, because of it, the programs that we want so badly cannot be funded because the Heritage Center has taken it away?
Do our city leaders want to stand in front of our children and ask them what they want?
This city has some real needs, and it's time that our city leaders step up and look at the reality before them.
I would rather those funds go to another city than have another penny put into the Heritage Center.

Fed Upp · ERA Funding H-bomb?

Is it true that Nelson (and others) are working behind the scenes to get the ERA to dump their cash - somewhere in the range of $400,000 - into the Heritage Center as his tribute to a legacy of bad ideas?

I hope this is not true, but it sort of makes sense. It takes care of Nelson's pals, as usual, and it gets this building on track to improve his and the mayor's (and others) little neighborhood.

I thought Bonnie wanted to give all the money to her friend Jim Taylor so he could develop the Mason building. But it looks like the Heritage center may receive a much needed cash boost.

While the building may not have any legitimate historical worth, the drama around this dump is sure making history.

Wait See

I believe they are looking at a new fire truck, buying back the Police Station and possibly some funding of the Tree Master Plan. Nothing in stone as of yet.

Waiter · Huh?

ERA is buying a fire truck? ERA is buying the old police station? What? How? Where in tarnation is that any part whatsoever of ERA's legal authority or mandate? Has anybody ever actually looked at what ERA s supposed to be doing? Is the fire department blighted? Is ERA negotiating with the owners of the police station right now? Who is handling that little deal?

Why would ERA buy anything when they won't have any funds coming in to maintain it?

Bad bad bad thinking, if that is really thinking at all.

Wow, talk about stepping outside the circle, shut this nonsense down now.

Wait See

I believe I said nothing is written in stone. Besides getting the PD back and using the property to build a new Police Station would be getting rid of blight which is very much within the scope of ERAs purpose as would funding the Tree Master Plan. It is all in the discussion stages right now, there in no firm committment on the surplus revenues after ERA sunsets later this year.

here, fishy · who is who

"I believe they are looking at a new fire truck, buying back the Police Station and possibly some funding of the Tree Master Plan."

Who is "they"? ERA? Council? P&R Board? Mayor McCheese? Budget Committee? Charter Review Committee? Mike Ball? Who is looking at this? I guess if this is about funds after sunset as the prior post suggests, it can't be the ERA looking at this. Can it?

Wait See

The ERA is listening to all the others (except CCRC they don't exist yet) and then a few more like the P&R Director and the new Buisness Association. Heck even I'm thinking about applying for some of that $600,000.

lkeegan · heritage center

This discussion is getting a little off topic. Not to make you guys po'd. BUT ... It is about the Heritage center not the ERA.Think there is another forum for the ERA? Please write to or call council if you have opinions about the Heritage Center staying or going. With the Grant not approved maybe we still have a choice. Or please come to the meeting(s). They need all of our input. Be part of the crowd at least.

Priscilla · Re: ERA Funding H-bomb?

Farmer Scott

With all do respect, Priscilla. Remove, all finger pointing.

We have a structure, rose garden and a descent parking lot which we have owned for seven years and are still unable to enter.

So, if its NOT drama? Is it a comedy or a tragedy?

Whatever it is; It certainly is suspenseful and non-fiction.

Guest

Hey Farmer Scott, you been in the shed again? You really think Fed Upp is giving us reliable info? Wait See I can believe. Fed Upp I think is just trying to ruffle some feathers.

Farmer Scott · a responce

The Farmer never believes much about any posts that use fictitiuos or clever names. That being said (guest) I was not trying to defend nor agree with Fed Upp. Only, to point out what are the facts, in the simplest terms. I don't like the finger pointing or NAME calling... (Drama Queen). I don't care who's fault it is. I only want it to go away. It has been seven years and I think that's enough.
I'm going back to my shed. You'll let me know when you get this matter solved.
Farmer

S James-Smith

Farmer, if you are really tired of this project never being completed and having no idea how we can afford to get it finished (do anybody want it? even), please let the city leaders know how you feel. It is critical to do so. It's not just your ears we need, we need your opinion, loud and clear. and anyone else you know who feels as you do bring em on down to the city meeting Thursday. now you aint shy are ya? S J S

Farmer Scott · troubled beyond

SJS,
The Farmer tries to pride himself on very specific things. One, being truthful. I find it very hard to address things I have little knowledge about. I have never set foot on or in the Abbey/Heritage Center therefore, I can't speak to what I don't KNOW. I have only seen the spectacle from the street (and what a Grand site, currently). I have thought about this problem. And the fact is I have no answer. Here's my dilemma, I don't no what the parking state/space is? Maybe, the parking is great cause just how many people are going to go to the museum/history center. So, if that doesn't go there, then we certainly couldn't put city hall there. My list goes on and on.

Selling it could be the very best option for the city?

More thoughts: Based on its size alone, how cool of a single family house could that be? How about turning it into a three/four unit? What about a great Steakhouse? (parking)??? Many more people smarter than I should be discussing this. I will give you this as MY personal opinion. If, the Heritage Center should be the choice; then it should be scraped and rebuilt. Trying to retro-fit anything (like our city) is a nightmare. There is built in obsolescence that is far too costly to overcome.
Lovin this City,
Farmer

l keegan

Farmer, you're the man. Great post. Very astute observations. You have stated very simply what I am hearing from so many of my neighbors and community members. ."Trying to retro-fit anything (like our city) is a nightmare. There is built in obsolescence that is far too costly to overcome."
LauraK

*caryn**

I think it just needs to be sold off and gotten rid of .
It has to many bad feelings attached to it.
Let someone else have a chance at making something successful there.
But Not the City of Edgewater.

Guest

Farmer. You seem to be a pretty sharp man. Perhaps you should learn a little more about the Heritage Center as a project, ask to see the inside, and then you will be better prepared to speak your opinion. We certainly need more people with your sensibility.

No Go · Can't see

Taking a tour of the H-Bomb is a fine idea. Just one hitch - I don't think anyone is allowed inside because it is unsafe.

lkeegan

Caryn, I think you have hit the nail on the head. This may be the best solution out there. We have more pressing needs. LauraK

Will · they really listen?

Did anyone attend last nights meeting?
Did you get a feel for how council really feels about community input on this project? Do you think that, if the community decides one way unanimously, council will listen, or is it just an excuse to get the ones who do speak up to shut up?

The Harlander

Will
Exactly how are you going to get the community to make a decision on this issue let alone unanimously? Is it going to be put on the ballot in a very expensive special election?
I left before the Heritage Center came up last night because it is a non-issue with me but, if I had my druthers, I would end this boondoggle. It simply is not worth the money and I have told Council so in private conversations. They seem to be listening, to both sides.

lkeegan

It was an excellent discussion. Everyone on council and many in the audience addressed: *does the community even want this, *there has to be a firm bid in- writing- of the actual costs to complete the building, *is the structure itself safe and *various issues with the water in and around the building. The consensus was reached that IF the grant reapplication is to go forward the Heritage Center has to have community support, the process has to be done correctly with bids that are firm and complete and the grant application has to have final approval of council. Council, worried that the time line of Sept 15 (I think that is the date) cannot be met, asked the mayor to set up a time line on getting bids and etc. She agreed to do this. Jamie will be working on a plan to bring to council on an effective way to get the community's input on the HC.

I spoke against the continuation of the project as did several others who I hope will post here with their feelings.

I hope the minutes of the meetings will be posted soon on the city site so anyone interested can read what was said.

Another issue: It was pointed out that very few citizens contact council members. It is frustrating to have so little citizen input. The contact information for all of Council is posted here on the TS and is on the city site. Please, if you care as much as you all say you do--come to council meetings, write, call or email your council about anything that matters to you. It is their duty to represent you and your duty to tell them what your issues are. You can, if you will post your full name and are a citizen of Edgewater, ask us to read your posts at council. LauraK

Mister Bill · Heritage Center

Excellent post Laura. You had everything correct except the bid deadline is Oct. 1st, which we think is an impossible timeline to meet right now. That is, to do it right and get all the information we need in order to make an informed decision regarding public sentiment. Thanks for your interest.

Ed G Waters

It will be interesting to see how Jamie goes about getting a public consensus. We have the Talking Stick and possibly a survey on the City Web site. Oh that's right, our web master just quit her job, not that she or anyone else at City Hall actually knows how to conduct a damn web based survey.
I think I'm going to dial in to the RNC, that Sarah Pilan is damn hot. She eats moose stew. I wonder if she drinks Colt 45? Now that's one fine woman, if you ask me.

Farmer Scott · Tip o the cap

Thank you Mr. Ed,
That was exactly what I was looking for. It was very inciteful. Please, tell me you are running next year. You, my friend are all over it. Where have you been Edgewater needs you. Please...Please....Please
FARMER

Farmer Scott · Sorry

This is not a laughing matter anymore. I think like most; which is that they're DONE. No More skRew ups. Enough is Enough. Nobody, like's laughing more than the Farmer but, he is very very tired.

Ms.Jamie and Mr. Bill,
I am at the the ready to help you anytime. I can only give you one families thoughts and I am willing too.
The Farmer

JamieMac · The Survey

Thanks for your offer, Farmer Scott. I may just take you up on it.
I am doing some research on public surveys, and am happy to hear any thoughts from the Stick readers.
The problem here is to offer a survey that does not reflect any bias.
The questions need to be direct and the answers need to give council the information they need to make their decision.
A web based survey is not the answer. The survey needs to be delivered to each home and returned via mail or drop box. I think we could get enough people to hand deliver them so as to avoid the expense of postage. AND, the people who deliver would have to be instructed not to give any opinions of their own. This could also bias the survey.
Thanks.
Jamie

The Harlander

Those are some very ambitious criteria Jamie. It is the very reason for the argument "The government is out of touch with the people", which is a very Democratic principal. We are not a Democracy however, we are a Republic based upon representative government. You must make your decision following your heart. It is why we elected you. If we do not like your decision we will let you know at the next election. It behoves you to know the pulse of the community. It is why we vote for you. We should not be expected to show up to every Council meeting. If your vote is based on majority opinion, well that is anarchy and the minority would have no voice at all, and niether would you.
I absolutley trust your opinion regarding this issue. It is why I voted for you, I trust you judgement.

Guest

Getting ‘a public consensus’ is far different than getting public opinion. I don’t think anyone is looking for consensus from the public. Council knows it is their decision. Adam flat out said he doesn’t even want to hear the public’s opinion. His information is better than ours and therefore our opinion doesn’t count. Others said, yeah we want to hear what people think. I commend council for asking what we think. They don’t have to do what we want, but it is nice that they are willing to listen.

JamieMac · Heart of the matter

Harlander,
Thanks for your 'vote of confidence'. I'm not sure if you are saying you agree that a poll should be taken or not. But I will tell you that I think if a council person takes into account only what is in their own heart, we may as well be a dictatorship. I do understand that, in the end, it is the decision of council that rules. However, I also think that we should make at least a reasonable effort to know what is in the hearts of the community. This is what I hope most of us get into office for in the first place. I surely am not in this for the money.
The Heritage Center project has had lot of heart and soul put into it as well as a very lot of money. Although you all probably know my opinion of the project, I can't speak for everyone. That said, I would like to know that the final decision on this project does take into account the wishes of the greater majority of our community, and not just a very small group of avid history buffs. That's a lot of money for just a few people.
I'm still open to suggestions on how this poll should fly.
Jamie

Farmer Scott · TYPICAL

Mr. Bill Bossert and Ms. Joan Martin,
Thank you for your hard work and information reported on, from the Historical Grant or lack there of. While, the Farmer and the saint had troubles holding a staight face it was noticed that certain Council members had the same troubles. But, as concerned citizens...now we know.
Comedy of errors, is very funny at first but, the end result is very embarrassing. Maybe, next time we'll consider dottin' all the I's and crossin' those t's and also re-re-re-checking our math.....but, only if we are looking for bout $320,000 cause apparently we haven't ever had to do this.

Thanks again,
The Farmer

Farmer Scott · the moments that make up a dull day

I am not a leader when it calls for political CRAP. This town (as far as da stick) dropped EVERTHING to look at a bigger picture and argue those points. Frankly, I turned my back on the process (deeming it un-healthy and vile) I/We have a new President now. I listened and heard that I would receive great changes.
SOooooo, what's up with that/the Heritage Center.
Shall we continue to beat the non resident p & r director for her lack of knowledge, continue too abuse the current board or just continue to blame the Mayor and Council.
The adds are over, the elections done. May we get back to Edgewater....Please. Our children should never wait and they've been waiting.

THE FARMER

PS See YA Saturday.

Raise hand

Not at 25th and Chase

How did we get here?

Going down.

Planing and sharing.

I smell surplus

council meeting 8/28

know now, or no

Open space funds for what?

ERA Funding H-bomb?

Huh?

who is who

heritage center

Re: ERA Funding H-bomb?

a responce

troubled beyond

Can't see

they really listen?

Heritage Center

Tip o the cap

Sorry

The Survey

Heart of the matter

TYPICAL

the moments that make up a dull day