Sounds like a council person .Smells like a council person

Big Mamma · Sounds like a council person .Smells like a council person

Blame the mayor and the police department after our wonderful council cut $100,000 out of the police department.....Remember our council also voted to give the Ice House all the rent from the businesses at 20th and Depew to the tune of $125,000 for what. Breaking a contract....And doing nothing. The Ice house can walk away after 2 years with $250,000. I think you need to reflect on who to call.....Go Council.....

Big Mama · What dont you get???????

The city council gutted the police department. $100,000 is a major blow to a department protecting 5,134 people.....It's all public record.......And does anyone know if the renter has a criminal history???? Leave it to the pros......[/img]

Big Mamma · Very concerned sounds like.......

A councilmember deflecting critizims.... I can think of two or three that practice this... Lets get the Ice Ranch money back as that elephant wont be built in the next five years.....$500,000 we are not paying out for nothing.... Remember "You get what you vote for"

Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: Sounds like a council person .Smells like a council person

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blame the mayor and the police department after our wonderful council cut $100,000 out of the police department.....Remember our council also voted to give the Ice House all the rent from the businesses at 20th and Depew to the tune of $125,000 for what. Breaking a contract....And doing nothing. The Ice house can walk away after 2 years with $250,000. I think you need to reflect on who to call.....Go Council.....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this true? If so why ? I'm a fan of the Ice Ranch and I know the financing would be difficult for them to obtain, however I also have common sense and they should be paying us money to extend the contract not the other way around.

Guest

I have been told that a big influx of money in the form of Byrne Grants has been poured into the Federal givernment by the Obama stimulas plan. Those grants really are designed to help criminal justice agencies. If we still have a grant writer Edgewater is the perfect kind of place that would benefit from this Federal money. Just a thought, but the City may already be working on something.

Guest · Crap

Why do you continue to post this crap? If you really want to know about the 'deal' with the ice ranch, ask for the public records.
If you really want to know why there were budget cuts, look at the budget. It's all public record. Why do you continue to speculate and spread this false stuff?
If this is the best you can come up with, then perhaps these forums really aren't doing what they were meant to.

Big Mama · Call your councilperson.

The council voted to give the Ice Ranch all rent prceeds from the business's at the shopping center. About $125,000 per year. I was at the meeting when it passed. The liquor store owner does not pay the city anymore. Ask him.... Before you accuse someone of spreading rumors you might want to check the facts.....

Guest

Thank You Big Mamma for keeping us informed

Big Mama · Smells like a councilperson.......

What are you afraid of?. THE TRUTH.?

bored with finger pointin · Constructive Idea

Big Mama · So much BS

The Ice ranch is collecting $125,000 a year for what??? Someone is getting rich and its not the citizens of Edgewater.... Call your councilperson and ask for an explanation...If you think the ICE Ranch is going to have money in 5 years your on crack. In the meantime the council will forward them $525,000in a five year period. There is nothing on record to explain their costs.....Hey lets cut the police department another $100,000

Guest · Quote your sources

I don't want to waste time with this unless you can prove it. Show us the contract you are referring to.

Big Momma · Call your Council person

Its all on the record. Get it from the horses mouth or start going to meetings. Ask the liquor store owner.... You wouldnt believe anything I said anyway......

Really?

I was also at the meeting. What I heard Council Gardner is exactly oppisite of what is stated here. I agree - get your facts straight.

Big Mama · Is that you Hockey boy????

I guess the three council people I asked were all lying....Deflecting the truth. A practised skill in Edgewater. Ask the owner of the liquor store who he's paying rent to.....

Guest 1 · What's the story?

So, let me see if I have this straight. You are saying the Ice Ranch is receiving rent right now from the businesses on 20th and Depew and are keeping the rents as income according to the owner of the liquor store and three council persons. That's what you are claiming. Right? Am I missing anything?

Guest

The liquor store owner is paying rent to the owner of the property. If you recall, that is the people who are building the ice arena. The owners of the property (the ones who are building the ice arena) are also paying taxes to the city of Edgewater on the property. There is also an agreement that the ice arena guys do not profit from this delay, so any funds in excess of what is needed to pay taxes and maintain the property go back to the city.

I know that people (especially the cops)are upset that there is no new police department, but please, lay the blame along side of the facts.

Witness

I doubt three members of council were lying. I have not doubt that some may have simply misunderstood. Agreement like this can be complicated. Guest of Feb. 23 @ 3:49pm has posted what I heard explained at the meeting.

Guest 1

Guest

Whoa.........are we off topic or what????? Are we done now, or should we ask Mod One for an separate thread in Govt or Urban Planning?

(maybe we could get Mod One to show us that great avatar)

Farmer Scott · None.

It needs more COW BELL.

The Farmer

Big Mamma · Not a disconnect but really scary

The Ice Ranch was awarded all the rent from the shopping center because they own it. 2.5 Million in land was given GRATIs for ekonomuical development. They default and ask for two year extension. They are granted $250,000 again with no strings...Who is guaranteing no profit?? Who gives away 2.5 Million without assuring financing is in place??? Here's the really scary part: There is no transfer of title with the assesor of Jefferson county...... Go to the web site.... Very interesting accounting... This also dates back to the former mayor that sold the site for the liquor store.......This started as the council gave no money.To a little, to the whole $125K a year... Please look at the taxes paid at 20 and Depew..... Trust me you will be surprised.....You get what you vote for......

Guest · Moderator, Please stop us from posting off topic!

Help! We're lost again!

Guest

2 year extension???? Given gratis????

What planet do you live on????

Guest · history

This is a lot like "re-debating" the pro's and con's of locating the city of Denver along Cherry Creek. It's old news, really old news.
So, I don't know about anyone else but I'm not going to "re-debate" history with Big Mamma. This issue has been decided.
To Big Mamma, call Councilman Gardner or Councilman Cooke, they were very involved in the Ice Ranch deal and they can help you correct your misunderstandings.

Guest

amen.

Guest

I think our chief needs to see who is spending all his staffing money on the Talking Stick.

Guest

Check the I.P addrress I think you will be surpriised that 90% of this is not the Police.

Curious

How to you check the IP address of a poster?

Can't do it

You cannot pin one computer down to one IP address. If you ask the administrators I'll bet they will tell you that several posters have the same IP address. It's a location thing. If several posters use the same Internet company then the address could be the same.

Guest

I remember council members and the managers of this site welcomed employees to post thoughts or concerns on the stick. I guess now we only want positive comments.

you're right

Guest

Ed G Waters

As fer myself, I'm somewhat partiated to full of it or just plain full hardey. I say trade 20th & Depew for the old Masonic Hall and put the damn Cops & Court in there. It's an officialatized lookin structure. Hell yes!

Guest

The old Masonic Hall would be great IF it were in good enough condition to warrant doing so - but it has been looked into and does not pass muster.
The biggest issue with the police department is not where but how - as in how to pay for it. The citizens need to care enough to warrant paying more in taxes (as in a mil levy or sales taxes) to help pay for a new copshop. We could sell off all the unused assets we own and it still would not be enough to purchase and outfit a new police station. Come up with a great idea that will pay for it and I would bet that you would be heard.

Guest · Funding Police Station - Question

Has the City Council asked the grant writers to see what is available in grants to build a Police Station?

Guest

Yes. And there are not grants available for bricks and mortar. And it looks like the stimulus bill isn't going to do anything for us either.

Guest

We give the current city hall to the police. City staff e-commutes and works from home. City meetings are held in the church. Files and records are kept in the Rec center. And parks and rec teams with the schools for activity rooms.

Guest

Great way to get thinking. However, I don't think the working from home will go over well with either the citizens or the staff. It really isn't very practical, but I like the way you are thinking!

Guest

Okay, maybe staff works out of Starbucks...

Guest

How about we do something instead of just
The usual talk without substance. Construction or
Buildings are as affordable as they have been
In a decade. But its the edgewater way to wait until.
Until prices triple and then be forced into
Doing something.

Wish we Could

I think we all want to see some substance, but what are our feasible options? I think utilizing space in churches and schools by more than one entity is feasible. For a city whose revenues are about $1.4mill less than our expenses construction and purchasing real estate are not feasible. Talking construction is not constructive.

Guest

Guest

How about financing it like eveyone else. Add a surcharge
To court fines and make monthly payments from the
General fund.

Guest

It’s not a mortgage. What do you suggest the city put up for collateral? Our revenues don’t yield extra money to pay off a loan. The last mill levy increase wasn’t approved and economic times are harder than ever. We already have surcharges in the courts. I don’t think you can arbitrarily decide that only the people found guilty in our courts need to pay for our capital construction costs and land acquisitions, even if it is a police station.

The blight study would help us figure out if there are areas in town that could be redeveloped to increase our revenues enough to create financial opportunities to do this kind of thing. But council doesn’t seem to want the study. They would rather send ERA’s $600,000 plus back to the county in exchange for our $33,000 share of the surplus. Edgewater is in need of some real redevelopment.

Blight wary

A blight study could very easily be biased to include only what certain developers and investors (anyone in the ERA like that?) want the study to say. Be careful about this type of thing. It might just be too good to be true.

A Little more action

So your saying that we can't afford to pay 600,000 for the church site at 2200 pierce st which would be about $4,000 per month if financed or much less if we sold the property the city owns by the fire department. But we can continue to throw away 2,000.00 a month in rent to a bar and $125,000 per year to the people who now own the abandoned 20th and depew site. I think it's sad because as an individual I could purchase that much property on my own if I needed it. Don't tell me the city would be better off to keep paying rent because, I don't buy it. We should have purchased the plumbing building at 25th and Benton when it came up for sale. We as tax payers paid for a study and a real estate consultant but gave it away. That building was new and need very little work to turn it into a police department.

Always Cautious

Oops · Sorry bad typing

Guest

I think we should have listened to the mayor and put
Human services in that depew site. They actually have money
And would develop the site and we keep the 125 k per year
In revenue. Even if it was developed we would lose money
On the ranch for 15 years.

Guest

The church at 22nd and Pierce is asking $995,000 AND it will cost a lot to retrofit it. Doesn't discount the idea, just adds a more accurate figure to the cost. Of course, bargaining down is always a possibility.
Good point about the rent going towards a new place.
Nothing is impossible if you look at all the facts, throw away the fears, and really plan to succeed. I believe that we will get a new police station in the near future. It has to be done and so it will.

More than skeptical · You betcha

Yeah, that's what the morgage brokers told those people who bought more house than they could afford with no interest loans, "don't worry, throw away the fears, everything will be fine". Everything wasn't fine, was it? Belief is fine for religion but it doesn't work as well with business.

Broke in Edgewater

Yeah, but pie in the sky and the sweet bye and bye are the order of the day. If you don't believe that, then look to the highest office in the land. Tell them what they want to hear, worry about the details later.

Good Stuff

Guest

The ice ranch has the extension so we live with it.
Two years from now we.will have thrown away about
350,000 and got nothing in return. I would hope that
Common sense would finally prevail and we get our land back.
Sell the land to social services and we get much more
Needed cash immediately and new city offices with money
Left over. This is another in a long list of about 2 million
In failed plans I wish we had back. Where is the city manager ?
We need a pro before the amatures destroy us.

Want to understand

Guest

Someone is throwing out a lot of figures that just aren't real.
Scare tactics is all I see.
Want to see scarey? Watch what happens when a welfare office is put into an area as small as Edgewater. If our esteemed mayor wants to impress Social Services with her handouts tell her to go back into the foster care business and leave the rest of city out of it.

it's a coming

The Ice Ranch will open here. "Chill Out"

Guest

When?????????

Guest

Soon. Now put your seatbelt back on and share those crayons with your sister.

Are we there yet?

Yes, Virginia, there is an Ice Arena and we are there. We just have to wait for it to open.

Empty space · Huh, uh...

Having walked by 20th and Depew this morning I hate to disagree but we are NOT there yet. There is a lot of ugly, broken up asphalt and definitely NO Ice Arena. So, who's got the scoop. Did they get the loan to build or not?

Guest

Guest

If this is true then we have yet one more good reason to do a blight study (now!). What's it going to take for us to figure out we can't do this on our own. Egos aside folks, we need help.

Phsych

And there is the rub. Egos and personalities.

Guest

The last we heard from council last month is that the Ice Ranch is working on loans and plans to start work at the end of this summer. Are you forgettting this economy has slowed the whole loan process to a snail's pace?

Guest

A deal has been made, contracts have been signed. Why waste your breath and start a lot of controversy over a done deal?
Geez! Look around! What part of recession don't you get?
I sure would like to see a little more of a positive note on these boards for a change, instead of the constant bitching and whining.
Why don't you start a thread for positive thoughts and ideas?
Can't hurt too much to do something positive, can it?

Empty space · Simple question

Lots of reaction I wasn't looking for here. All I wanted was an update on the progress of the loan, if there is any. So, it isn't OK to ask a simple question here?
OK, I'll go somewhere else to ask my questions.

Guest

well, that is what a forum is about, alows lots of people to have their say. don't give up posting. accept that this is what people do on a forum. lots of back and forth action.

Guest

Since when did asking valid questions become

Guest

It's not the valid questions that are the big turn off, it's the people who post things that do no good and only incite negativity. There are some facts that just are, but some people are either too stupid to get it, or they are just looking to start a fight.
Nothing wrong with questions.

Just saying

And exactly who will determine the ulterior motives of posters? You? Me? I think most people can think and read for themselves. What is positive, negative or neutral seems to be a rather subjective determination, best left to the poster and his or her readership of which you and I are only a small part.

Big Mamma · Stupid is as Stupid does....

Wake up Edgewater. The thread started with the city council gutting the police department to the tune of $100,000. Fact. It was brought up that the city council had voted to extended a voided contract and allow the Ice Ranch to collect $125,000 a year. Fact. It was brought up that the title on land has not been transferred.Fact The Ice Ranch has not paid a cent while receiving all revenue from the liquor store. It's pathetic to argue with people that dont recognize they are getting screwed.................Positive thoughts?????Why dont you realize your getting &crewd You get what you vote for.....

Guest · whatever

ya know "Big Mamma" what you posted is simply not true but I'm not writing this for you - just for those who may be listening in

Down Town

Fact. The Mayor refuses to do her job. Fact. The Council President has a weekly stage where he does his impression of Alan Alda in MASH. Fact. Between these two clowns nothing, and I mean nothing, is getting done. Fact. Between these two clowns we are throwing good money after bad, our Administrative Departments, Boards and Commissions are going to hell in a hand basket, Fact. Our Police Department works out of a shanty owned by a slum lord. Fact. We are about to lose the P&R Board while the P&R Director runs about the town, out of control, destroying what little P&R assets we have. Fact. We have hired yet another architect to study the Heritage Center and no one knows who hired him nor how we are going to pay for him. Fact. 20th and Depew is no closer to being off our backs than it was two years ago. Fact. Charter implementation is being held up while to two clowns duke it out. Fact. We the tax payer are footing the bill on all this foolishness and we are getting nothing in return. Fact. The next election will solve nothing.

Sunnyside Up · Truth or dare

Sooooooo, now we know what you don't like, tell us what you do want, as specifically and concretely as possible and tell us how you think we can get what you want.
It's OK to vent frustration but if that is all you do, you tend to bring us all down and make us feel hopeless. That isn't what you have in mind, is it?

Guest

Pretty much on point.

Guest

It's time someone said it.

Down Town

Sunnyside Up
What I want is the two top leaders of our City to grow up, that would be a positive step. Then the rest of our leaders and those that serve us can go about doing the job they are prepaired and willing to do.

Watching

Right on Down Town! I don't agree with the next election part though, any candidate that wants my vote is going to have to answer some tough questions and I intend to call them all. Those tax dollars they are spending came of the sweat of my brow.

Guest

Did you know that we will be electing 5 out of 7 council people this November? We will be lucky to have 5 candidates. Who ever runs will probably get in, with or without my vote.

Down Town

As I said

Guest

Quoting from earlier:
I agree that real estate is pretty affordable right now - but only if you have the money to afford it. This is taking us back to the same old issue. How do we pay for it?

Real estate values are down.
THe slum lords who now own the PD building and have jacked up the rent to an extremely different figure than what the city originally agreed to.
The slum lords do not have to maintain the building up to code, per the city's old contract with them.
The building in NOT up to code and likely condemnable.
The PD is now on a month to month lease,and can be kicked out at anytime. (ever wonder why they never issue a single drunk driving ticket to those old drunken crones at sloanes?)

How about we use EMINENT DOMAIN POWER and get it back while the time is right and values of the property are low?

YES I said it. USE EMINENT DOMAIN for the purpose it was designed for!

Use ERA to do the blight study and assist with getting this problem fixed. They can help find the financing if we let/help them do this job, one they are willing to do if the COuncil would support them!

Eminent domain? · Don't think so.

I think that the use of eminent domain in this case would result in a lengthy lawsuit, probably charging that the city needed some extra cash at the time and sold the place with the intention of exercising eminent domain in the future.
Let's face it, the city made a really stupid decision at the time. There's no going back.
A new plan needs to be addressed for the police station. It needs to be realistic and doable. This city has got to stop making stupid and unthought out purchases and they need to quit spending money on run down buildings like the police station, the Heritage Center and the Orum House. Soon enough the old run down buildings will include the Maintenance facilities on Harlan, but nobody is even considering that right now. Can't see the forest for the trees.

Farmer Scott · that domain thing

As you know the Farmer is a gamer. (PSA:for FUN)
Why would you ever consider implementing "E.D." on the old Police depertment and building. When, you have a nicely refurbished building right accross the street in the old Drugstore. This is absolutely, the last thing the City needs. (still funny) Time, Time, money, Time is all we need.

Ain't happening,
The Farmer

Guest

Listening for years and can’t believe my ears.

The Abby was been debated to death. It started with a simple question. Should we let JeffCo give it to us. We decided to take it on and build a new library. Then we decided that 20 and Depew would be a better library. Then we sold our run down police station. Then we decided that 20 Depew wasn’t going to be anything. Then we decided the Abby was too run down to be used for anything. Then we looked into several buildings for our police station, one of which was the Abby. All of the buildings we looked at which included the Masons, Perry Building, Abby, Alliance Plumbing, church on 26th and current city hall have all been ruled out as options for the cops. And now for some reason the structurally unstable, too small Abby is once again being considered for the police station?? If we are truly so desperate as to consider this, again, at least reconsider the mason’s building. It isn’t being developed as promised. It is littered with dilapidated fences, dead trees and weeds and in serious need of work. No mater what, we are going to have to spend money we don’t have. Would it be too much to hope that we would at least invest in a piece of property big enough to serve the purpose. Tear down the current Masonic building, sell everything we own and build a real municipal facility at 25 and Fenton.

Hiram

We could even ask the Masons to lay a cornerstone for the new facility.

Guest

The Masonic building would cost more to repair than it would to tear it down and rebuild. Why do you think it hasn't been rented or purchased? The guys who own it now are quick to jump into things, big talkers, but not much follow through or forethought in what they start.

Just do it!

Tear it down, besides there is a City Sewer main break underneath the building. Put in a whole new building, there is plenty of land at the Masonic site. Sell off what we aren't using, Heritage Center, 20th & Depew and the Orum House. Buy the Masonic, tear down and build, move in and sell off the building at 20th & Gray and the current City Hall (these properties could even be used for collateral during construction). With any left over money fix up the FD Building. Four years from now life will be good.
Another thought. Go to 25th & Harlan. Take 6 lots on each corner by eminent domain. One corner for City Hall, one for the PD, one for FD and one for P&R. Call it Town Square. That will get at least one problem out of the City.

Guest

Don't forget to throw in the parking lot at 25th & Sheridan on our list of properties for sale

Guest

Just how much do you suppose all of our properties are worth? Certainly not enough to buy and tear down, fix all the issues above and below, and then rebuild. Besides, why would the city pay for a building that is just going to be torn down? Those guys aren't going to sell it for the cost of the property, even though that's all it's worth.

Guest

Guest

Guest

Negotiator

Actually eminent domain would only be needed if the current property owners completely refused to work with the city, as was suggested. When we looked at the property before I’m not sure the city considered letting go of properties like the Heritage Center or the Orum house. And overall property values have changed a lot in the last year or two. Maybe we have more assets to leverage than we did the first time around.

Guest

Hey! I'm all for selling the Orum House and the Heritage Center!
The city has acquired some dead properties, kind of like that developer that bought the Masonic building.

Guest · Only Fair

Denver Urban Gardens invested in the community garden at the Orum House. I realise there will be a new community garden at Lumberg Elementary (so convenient for some of our neighbors especially with the new playground right there) but I do feel the City should also work out an IGA with Edgewater Elementary for a new community garden there or in the park, if we sell the Orum House property. Maybe we could even move the greenhouse so that it isn't attached to the school (which never should have been done as you can't maintain a greenhouse attached to a school because you can't spray for bugs, a greenhouse reality) and could be used again as a functioning greenhouse. Since DUG trusted us and built that community garden we should replace it with another one with some of the proceeds from the sale.

Guest

I did not know that there was a greenhouse at the school. Where is it?
As for the bugs, there are better and safer ways to control them that won't affect the kids, the gardeners or the plants in a negative way. It's called organic gardening. I do believe that Jeanette Papp has talked about this before.

Guest · to Guest at 10:41

The greenhouse is attached to the south wall of Edgewater Elementary, on the top level. If you take the stairs from Depew street down to the playground you will walk right by it on your left. The greenhouse was a joint venture with the school 4 or 5 Parks and Rec. Directors ago. I know this because that Parks and Recreation Director called me asking for volunteers to help construct the greenhouse.
The teachers tried to use it but I was told they found they didn't have time. It was open to the community one year. After that it has been used to store old desks etc. not exactly it's best and highest use.
I'm all about organic gardening, however a greenhouse is a unique environment and it is very difficult to control pests in that enclosed, warm space - although I'm sure there are methods out there somewhere. The problem is, as it is attached to the school and there are little ones in the school, understandably, the codes won't allow any spraying. I once washed the whole thing down with a bleach solution all by myself to try to remedy the situation. Boy was that a job! It shouldn't have been built attached to the school. But the intention was good.
It could probably be moved and a north wall installed. It's a great little greenhouse!

Dreamer

I don't know if this is possible but consider this. The North Side of Walker Branch Park is ours and the section North of the Skate Park is seldom used by anyone. Why can't we use open space funds to build a Rec Center / Police Facility in that section. I bet the Skate Park would not be vandalized anymore and we could have a nice rec center and space for the cops at the same time.

Is this Possible ????????

Sounds like a council person .Smells like a council person

What dont you get???????

Very concerned sounds like.......

Crap

Call your councilperson.

Smells like a councilperson.......

Constructive Idea

So much BS

Quote your sources

Call your Council person

Is that you Hockey boy????

What's the story?

None.

Not a disconnect but really scary

Moderator, Please stop us from posting off topic!

history

Funding Police Station - Question

Sorry bad typing

You betcha

Huh, uh...

Simple question

Stupid is as Stupid does....

whatever

Truth or dare

Don't think so.

that domain thing

Only Fair

to Guest at 10:41