Accessibility to Citizen’s Park

Devon Barclay · Accessibility to Citizen’s Park

OK, I understand there’s a lot of talk about who can access Citizen’s Park, and how. There’s talk of a new walkway. I am NOT speaking here as chair of the Parks and Rec. Advisory Board – in that role, I’ll fight like white on rice for what the citizens’ want, or what Councilors Ordain – but I will speak as a person, who lives in and cares about this City, and hope you’ll listen to what I have to say.

Citizen’s Park is, and always has been, one of the lowest places in town, and as such, our place to secure drainage. If you’ve been interested, you might have gone down there during our two-day thunderstorm and seen 4-5” of water across the park. That’s water NOT in your street. Any work in that space is likely to mess with that drainage plan. We got a park in that gutter because Edgewater, at some time, figured we could do two things at once. AND IT’S WORKED.

The fact is, a walkway from the pavilion to Edgewater Elementary would make a lot of sense, but about 20 years ago, engineers decided we needed the drainage more than we needed a “bridge” between our pavilion and the school’s lot (that we don’t own). Before anyone moves forward on building anything, I’d suggest they at least read that report.
All of that said:

I wanted to make sure I wasn’t talking out of thin air, so tonight, with a drizzle of rain, two days of wet, and puddles on the ground, I drove out to the park not ONE HOUR ago with a wheelchair in the back of my ’95 Civic and gave access to the Pavilion a test run from the North end. I parked at Edgewater Elementary. I pulled the chair out of my car, and, since it was equipped for one lost leg, got in place and strapped the other leg to it. I had no trouble with the parking lot (right?) but, on hitting the gravel between the school and Pavilion, got stuck. So I cheated to get to the waterlogged park.

After that, though, I was on grass and got along JUST FINE. The fact is, our grass park is perfectly navigable by wheelchair – ESPECIALLY if you’ve got someone to help. Even without, I made it to the Pavilion just fine.
I made a ring around the pavilion and went home. I’ll repeat this at the so-called “Wheels in the Park” Sept. 7. I’ll even “drag race” anyone who says it can’t be done.

I’m not trying to make light of anyone’s hardships – but the fact is, our park is accessible. If an “able-bodied” 27-y.o. can do it in the rain, in the mud, without help, anyone with a friend can do it under fair weather. It’s time to put this to bed. And let’s not waste a bunch of money catering to the instincts of a few, when we’ve got thousands of kids with NOTHING AT ALL TO DO. This is a time to be realistic, and to see the town as a whole.

-Devon

Guest

Thank you Devon for doing the homework. I have been wondering how to justify my gut feeling that council was pandering to the personal agenda of a few close friends but didn’t really have any hard facts.

Priorities need to be community oriented, and not based on being popular with the peanut gallery. You displayed several good points.

The park is accessible
The park has a greater purpose - drainage
We have lots of kids that need lots of support

Maybe council’s time, the city’s money and the P&R director’s efforts might be better spent.

Park Rat

Hear, hear! Finally some reason in a sea of PC gobledegook (or urban drainage as the case may be).

TN

$10,000 for a useless gravel walkway or $10,000 for childrens P&R programs? That's a no brainer.

JamieMac. · Requesting your brains

Ahem.... as a member of a 'pandering' council, I would like to point out that the appearance of pandering can come from many sides. It just depends on which side you are on in deciding if it is pandering.
I believe that there is validity in the concern of access to the park. I'm very happy that Devon is able to meander through the wetlands in a wheelchair without assistance. I am also very happy that he doesn't have to.
While it may be easy for some to do so, it apparently is not a walk in the park for others; strollers, walkers, canes, and some in wheelchairs.
I also understand that the park becomes a lake, and then a marsh, after a good rain. It then becomes inaccesible to most of us. We can't stop the rain. I too, am concerned about gravel or crusher fine washing away. I am researching what I can on this. I have talked to Devon about this. He has some good points. I also think that we need to do what we can to make the park accessible to everybody. This is not rocket science, and there has to be an answer that will satisfy the majority.
What I really would like to see is a community effort in putting in whatever type of pathway is decided on. We are a small town with a small budget. But we are a community with a lot of talent and poeple who want to help, if they are made aware of the need and asked. I think that this could be a perfect community project. That is what I would like the fine people of this fine forum to brainstorm.
What is the best way to make to make the parkaccessible and what is the best way to get the community involved in making it happen?

1st Things 1st · Re: Requesting your brains

Guest

It is my understanding that the mayor directed the Parks and Rec board to work directly with Lydia, the P&R director.
Perhaps the board should be discussing this with Lydia.

Guest

According to ADA regulations Citizens Park is fully handicap accessible. It is a moot point, move on. What we do not have, is viable P&R children and family activities. The only group recieving any amount of consideration is the senior citizen population and I would contend that feeding their gambling addiction is not healthy nor conducive of a municipal parks and recreation program.
From what I hear, the P&R Director basically ignors any recommendations from the P&R Board. It is even questionable under the new Charter whether we even have a P&R Board without a new ordinance from Council. So how can the Mayor direct a non board with no duties to work with a Director who has already made her stance clear.

1st Things 1st

Again...master plans. If the board were to volunteer their talents and their time on master plans they could develope comprehensive proposals to present to the ‘the city’. There could be one for the kids, one for the parks, one for the seniors and so on and so on. These could then be presented to council for approval. Some would make the cut and other might not. Once approved by council the city manager would be charged with bringing them to fruition. That is in my opinion the only proper channel the board has to the P&R director. Any other route is not how our powers and authorities are structured and therefore will fail. I think the board has a lot of potential, but they might want to re-evaluate there approach. What they are doing now obviously isn’t working.

Compliance Questioner · ADA compliance

Guest with the comment on ADA has a good point - if the park presently complies with ADA requirements then other requests to make things easier are "over and above" and should come as a lower priority than much needed children's programs. First,t he City Engineer's office should evaluate whether ADA is currently being met. THEY are the only ones who might be qualified to make that determination, because they are the people responsible for knowing the codes.
We all want things easier, and we all want to make things easy for the handicapped, but it might be easier to have Edgewater volunteers (good idea on volunteers, Council woman) to schedule time to help handicapped people around the park (kind of like the access-a-ride program) than to spend huge amounts of money on pathways we will then need to spend more money to maintain, while kids are left wanting (and left out to be the "devil's playthings") one more time.

B'ball, not league, lover

Tear down that damned steel, steal-the-park-from-the-citizens-all-year-round baseball fence! That fence only benefits a small group of citizens and the out-of-towners who only come to Edgewater for league games, and don't patronize our businesses, while leaving those who want to play other sports in non-baseball seasons with a limited area to play in without running into the iron baseball curtain.
Before that damned fence people had a whole field to play on when the seasonal plastic fence was down. everything from Frisbee to soccer was played in the park, with enough room for multiple games to be played. Then along came the P&R Nazi to decide that the league people needed more Lebensraum, and than NO ONE should play on THEIR turf when THEY weren't using it. Somehow, apparently league baseball is a religion we must give its own hallowed worship ground.
I would like to see the council have the spine to admit that the P&R head overstepped in putting up the fence, that the fence is a BAD community idea, and to sell the fence to the highest bidder as you remove and fill the holes. Then put the seasonal fence back up and let the CITIZENS, NOT THE LEAGUE, own the park. The rent from the league on the field doesn't pay for the cost to our citizens.

Compliance Questioner

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: ADA compliance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guest with the comment on ADA has a good point - if the park presently complies with ADA requirements then other requests to make things easier are "over and above" and should come as a lower priority than much needed children's programs. First,t he City Engineer's office should evaluate whether ADA is currently being met. THEY are the only ones who might be qualified to make that determination, because they are the people responsible for knowing the codes.
We all want things easier, and we all want to make things easy for the handicapped, but it might be easier to have Edgewater volunteers (good idea on volunteers, Council woman) to schedule time to help handicapped people around the park (kind of like the access-a-ride program) than to spend huge amounts of money on pathways we will then need to spend more money to maintain, while kids are left wanting (and left out to be the "devil's playthings") one more time.

lkeegan · Wheelchairs through the park

Caryn hosted a fabulous event this morning to demonstrate how difficult access into and around the Citizen's Park is. With various types of wheel chairs- manual ,electric, walkers- council members Bill Bossert, Jamie McElhany, Adam Gardner, Kent Johnson, and David Cooke, along with Caryn, her husband,her son, their guide dog who is also chair bound, private citizens and a member of the press were there for the event. Council and several citizens tried their best to maneuver safely through the west side of the field area over to the cemented pavilion. A formidable task. At best a difficult and dangerous adventure for all. With the luck of good health and strong bodies on their sides, council and guests who made the crossings found out how laborious and challenging it was. The need for a well designed, compliant pathway was evident. It was a disappointment that no one from the P&R board nor the P&R director nor the mayor were able to attend. Thanks to Caryn for hosting and for all the work she did in putting this program together. It truly was an eye opener.

Laura K

JamieMac. · 2nd

I second the kudos to Karen.
It definitely isn't easy to do - except maybe for David Cooke. He seemed to be enjoying the exercise. And it was exercise. At least until we got ahold of the electric chairs. Then it was kind of fun. But I wasn't worried about falling over and not being able to get back up. I wasn't worried about my head bouncing all over the place because I didn't have the neck muscles to support it properly. And I wasn't worried about falling forward in a walker and breaking a hip. Actually, I was a little worried when I was 'trying' to push the walker across the grass. It kept pitching forward. And I wasn't worried about the 'fake baby' in the stroller being stricken with, as one councilman called it, shaken baby syndrome, while trying to push a stroller across the grass. There are a lot of hidden holes and the grass was pretty swampy in areas from the sprinklers. Before, I had not even considered the sprinklers. I was only thinking about the rains.
I think this experience really opened up our eyes to some of the obstacles that the handicapped face that most of us would never even consider.
So, are we handicapped compliant in the park? Maybe. But are we doing the best we can for the handicapped, elderly, or even the parents with strollers? NO. I think we can do better.
By the way Karen. Thank you for the awesome muffins!!! Healthy and delicious!
Jamie

Caryn

Thank You to all who were in attendance .
I have avoided this thread because I am not the expert . I think showing is far more effective then speaking. This is a true case in point until you are in the chair,walker or cane, you really do not understand. Until you try to get from point A to point B in a manner that is different from your own it is difficult to understand fully.
This week Council Meeting will have various "Official" people who will be speaking on the ADA and Park access to everyone from the newest little babies , the youngest toddler trying to take their first steps to the most elderly and fragile of our community.
Giving our entire community access to the park , and isn't that what this is all about.
Simon Moya from Yourhub.com is the reporter who is doing the story and he just lives a block away from our park and he related to me that he won't let his Grandfather go to the park alone because he is afraid that he will fall and get hurt.
Again Thank You , to all for your participation , coming with an openmind , willingness to have fun with it , understanding and most of all your time.

Guest

Basically the event was theatre of the obvious. What we do know (and knew before the event) is that a walkway from West of the pavillion to the east of the pavillion would be benificial to the pedaly challenged. How does that equate into dividing the park in two, with a walkway running the full length park from North to South. Actually I do support a walkway running along the top of the berm on the East side of the park but, at what expense?
Now Jamie says the sprinklers create a problem. Are we to take out the grass? That would just leave a mud hole when it rains not to mention that it would no longer be attractive. So the only answer would be putting in an ampitheater. I don't think Urban Drainage is going to buy into that solution.
Any ideas?

Guest

Theatre of the obvious. ????
Get your head out of your ass and think about something other than your obvious reluctance to step out of your own personal comfort zone.
Nobody is asking to take out the grass or divide the park in two.
This event was designed to put the difficulties of some into a clear perspective. And it did accomplish that.
I can say without doubt that you did not attend that event, because if you did, you would not have written what you did.

Guest

So you are saying that anyone who did not attend the event (the General Public) is unaware of the difficulties of pedaly impaired people? Or for that matter the bind or the deaf. How about people whom have lost the use of their hands and arms? Are you saying that I have to attend every demonstration of disabilities before I can be sensitive to the needs of others? I believe that is a little presumptive of you.
The demonstration was done to drive home the issues regarding Citizens Park. I have eyes and can see the issues the park presents. I know what it is like to be wheelchair bound, I have done considerable time in a wheelchair, on crutches and limping along with a cane, years of my life were spent that way. The demonstration did nothing and in regards to a doll in a stroller, that was hardly a scientific experiment resulting in the conclusion that to have a real child in a stroller cross Citizens Park is akin to SBS as one councilman analyzed.
Theatre of the obvious was not an insult, it was an observation based on previous posts. The insult is that we are not putting our resources into an analysis of what is needed and a practical solution. Then again, that seems to be the way Edgewater does things.

Park Rat

You want to know what the real problem is? Lets take those same wheelchairs and the same Council people and have them go from their home to Citizens Park using the sidewalks. Now that is a problem.

The Harlander · The Truth

I noticed in today’s HUB ( 9/11/08 ) an article addressing the issue of accessabilty at Citizens Park and an event held this last weekend. I found the article informative in substance but lacking in fact. Caryn Thomas (according to the article) laid the blame for her issue upon the shoulders of the Park and Recreation Boards shoulders. That is not correct.
Mrs. Thomas has never addressed her issue before the P&R Board. She has only appealed to Council. In fact the issue has never been brought before the P&R Board nor should it. Those issues are determined by the P&R Director, the Mayor and City Council.

Now in all fairness, Devon Barclay the Chairman of the P&R Board, has been very vocal on this issue on the Talking Stick as have others. Mr. Barclay is only one voice of five on the P&R Board. I know for a fact that June Moreno of the P&R Board has concerns over this issue but doesn't feel it can be fully addressed until the Board gets a go ahead to start work on a P&R Master Plan. Master Plans cost money folks, once again it is in the hands of the Mayor and Council with the blessings of the P&R Director. Until they make up their minds the P&R Board has little say.

Lets lay blame where it belongs and stop trying to play a political end game by randomly selecting a whipping boy. Most of all, let's be careful what we, as Citizens, say to the press. Do you get my drift Mrs.Thomas?

Guest

It seems to me that if a wheelchair bound person is capable enough to get to the park why can't they roll in off 22nd where access is easy and the distance to the pavilion is shorter.

If they get driven to the park why can't there helper unload at 22nd. How many points of wheel chair access do we need.

The Harlander · Needs and Desires

In my opinion? As many as are practably needed and, that also seems to be the goal of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So the question is....have we meet the practical needs at Citizens Park with all the available resources and desires of the community? That is a question I will leave to the leaders of our fair City as stated above.

Guest

You need 2 points an entrance and an exit and they cant be the same one

Potty Time

Oh really? Most bathrooms don't meet that criteria.

Farmer Scott · A respectful responce.

It is currently 9/12 therefore, we can continue with our little town disscussions in regards to our simple needs. To discuss these issues (with the exception of the 3 or 4th of July might just be; SAD).
As for "potty time".....You need to be at least this tall to ride this ride.

I will only say this. The HUB is probably going to make corrections, from a responce from Mrs. Thomas. It is one of those freedom of the press things you and I both agree with.

Thirdly, I feel no obligation to protect Mrs. Thomas heaven knows she can handle herself just fine. I will though, as she is a close and personal friend. Trust me, she knows when she has stretch my line of agreement.
I think this is my last point for now: The criticism that has been alledged: Isn't Devon the author of this post? However, He was a no show along with all other members of the P & R Board let alone the PR Director. For "Wheels through the Park."
Lastly, lets take a look at the agreement from 1997 and decide whether or not we need to re-make the wheel. Oh, The Harlander, if you missed it....please call the Mayor or your Council persons too fill you in.

Guest

Where is the Hub article? I can't find it online. Anyone have a link?

Guest

Was the Mayor at Wheels in the Park? I don't think so.

who wasn't there

nope, no mayor, no P&R director, no P&R board members

P&R Board member · What?

As a P&R Board member I wasn't notified that my attendance was requested.
As a P&R Board member, I am still waiting for Council to describe what they want me to do!
No one contacted me about this issue. I don't read minds.
Enough with the guilt, already.
Might I suggest, if you have something, you might want to communicate it to those whom you wish to pay attention to it.
Just a suggestion...

Farmer Scott · No problem.

I don't feel guilty and neither should you. This event was advertised on flyers, word of mouth and on the cities beautiful website. It was about awareness of accessability or the lack there of, into and out of Citizen's Park. Sorry, you missed it. It was fun and I believe eye opening at the same time. I tried to have this event on a Saturday but, as you would know there are no available Saturdays in the month of September.

Catcha next time,
The FARMER

Guest

I thought was on Saturday, I work on Saturday. Didn't learn it was on Sunday till afterwards. I agree with the P&R person, there is a lot of guilt and blame being thrown around and the HUB article did lay the blame on the P&R Board and they are saying the issue never came before them. I don't always beleive what I read in the newspapers or on the Stick.

Accessibility to Citizen’s Park

Requesting your brains

Re: Requesting your brains

ADA compliance

If you want to make things accessible to all................

Wheelchairs through the park

2nd

The Truth

Needs and Desires

A respectful responce.

What?

No problem.